Canon USA to launch new Cinema EOS camera on June 5, 2024 at 3PM EDT

First of all it must be a FF DGO sensor! That translates 1 to 2 more stops of DR against c70! C70 at 12.8 stops of DR and C500 ii at 13.1 stops of DR with snr=2 according to Cined test. C500 mark II announced back in 2019 and c70 at 2021. So 15 stops with DGO tech and ff sensor is very doable in 2024. I hope Canon won't disappoint us..!

tomislavmoze said:

I would happy with the DR of c70 in a FF sensor so I can use my RF L glass with it. Also 6K would be perfect that is a sweet spot for most of us regarding video work. There is so little that I miss regarding c70. It is great for run and gun, documentary and small advertising sets. And you can do a lot with it just by yourself.

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If that’s all you need, just by the Sony A9III. It managed 9 solid stops of exposure latitude in the CineD lab test. The Canon C70 only manages 8. The exposure latitude test is a more accurate measurement of dynamic range than the IMATEST. Indeed CineD stated:

“My conclusion so far is that IMATEST mainly measures the noise reduction, and not so much the “real” dynamic range. ”

DBounce said:

If that’s all you need, just by the Sony A9III. It managed 9 solid stops of exposure latitude in the CineD lab test. The Canon C70 only manages 8. The exposure latitude test is a more accurate measurement of dynamic range than the IMATEST. Indeed CineD stated:

“My conclusion so far is that IMATEST mainly measures the noise reduction, and not so much the “real” dynamic range. ”

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I agree but we have to mention that c70's sensor is s35 a not ff as a9iii. Also it's a full cinema camera with a complete package of NDs, XLRs and so much more that milc photo body! 8 stops of latitude with s35 sensor back at 2021 it was an extraordinary result for a small form factor cinema camera!

Hi, I'm new here so go easy! Any chance this could be a square body 'camera brain' like the Reds? That's something I really hope Canon do at some point...

DBounce said:

If that’s all you need, just by the Sony A9III. It managed 9 solid stops of exposure latitude in the CineD lab test. The Canon C70 only manages 8. The exposure latitude test is a more accurate measurement of dynamic range than the IMATEST. Indeed CineD stated:

“My conclusion so far is that IMATEST mainly measures the noise reduction, and not so much the “real” dynamic range. ”

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Mario told you everything.
Plus I would add the fact if I switched to Sony it’s just a money waste cause i would lose to much by selling all my lenses to gain so little

tomislavmoze said:

Mario told you everything.
Plus I would add the fact if I switched to Sony it’s just a money waste cause i would lose to much by selling all my lenses to gain so little

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I didn’t switch… I own Sony, Canon, Fujifilm and Leica. All have their strengths and weaknesses… for Canon and Sony those weaknesses are largely self imposed. These days I’m more selective. I’ll only buy “special” cameras.

I just parted with my R3… it was not getting much use after I added the A9III to the lineup. I’m eager to see how Canon responds to the Sony.

If it is a cinema presentation, would Canon release a couple of power zoom Z lenses such as a 70-200mm F2.8 Z or the rumored uwa zoom z version? It would make sense to me. If Canon wants to release about 8 lenses this year they should better get going.

Canon Rumors Guy said:

If I just went off the certifications, I would wager a no.

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Don’t crush my dreams of a $40k Canon body!

Exploreshootshare said:

If it is a cinema presentation, would Canon release a couple of power zoom Z lenses such as a 70-200mm F2.8 Z or the rumored uwa zoom z version? It would make sense to me. If Canon wants to release about 8 lenses this year they should better get going.

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Those lenses are geared toward smaller ENG setups. Pro cinema is all about the big fast glass. Canon announced their RF mount set last September with the 135mm finally becoming available next month. They resolve to 8K and HDR so one would assume whatever this cinema body is that’s coming, is at least an 8K HDR full frame workhorse.

Yay! Love my C300 Mark III but I've moved a lot of my work into medium format, cinematography included, so a full-frame RF mount cinema camera (from CANON, finally) is most welcome. Hoping this is classed up against the Burano and RED cameras—Canon really needs to enter that space.

Now to get sad about paying an extra $1500 for a locking RF mount, $1800 for V-mount expansion, etc...

DBounce said:

I didn’t switch… I own Sony, Canon, Fujifilm and Leica. All have their strengths and weaknesses… for Canon and Sony those weaknesses are largely self imposed. These days I’m more selective. I’ll only buy “special” cameras.

I just parted with my R3… it was not getting much use after I added the A9III to the lineup. I’m eager to see how Canon responds to the Sony.

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to me owning two systems is a waist of money, I do use sony now and then and rent other systems but for my type of work owning one system is enough...with new releases I hope it will still be canon

It looks like a full-frame sensor, or it's not a C 70MKII.

tomislavmoze said:

to me owning two systems is a waist of money, I do use sony now and then and rent other systems but for my type of work owning one system is enough...with new releases I hope it will still be canon

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If I could afford it, I would have multiple systems too. Why not!

이미지 보정을 해보니 캐논 로고가 보이네요. C300과 C500과 모양이 비슷하네요. C70은 전혀 아닌 것 같아요.
그리고 풀프레임 센서네요.
When I calibrated the image, I can see the Canon logo. The shape is similar to the C300 and C500. I don't think it's C70 at all.
And it's a full-frame sensor.

DBounce said:

The Canon C70 only manages 8. The exposure latitude test is a more accurate measurement of dynamic range than the IMATEST.

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Exposure latitude and DR are separate things.
That is why CineD tests both.
IMATEST is the standard way to test DR but CineD uses a higher SNR threshold.
Contrary to the claims that some people make, the Cine D test is not real world dynamic range.
It is a threshold that they felt would be more useful.
My big problem with them is that they do not test cameras at their optimal settings.
They can argue that is how people will use them in the real world but it is not how people should.
ARRI is the only brand that gets higher in the CineD tests than the claimed dynamic range.
However, ARRI has built-in noise reduction and they make it nearly impossible to choose a bad setting.
ARRI dominates and they should.
However, they are a poor choice for movies with heavy VFX.

tomislavmoze said:

to me owning two systems is a waist of money

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It did not used to be but then Sony made it so I could not get full performance using EF lenses.

EOS 4 Life said:

Exposure latitude and DR are separate things.
That is why CineD tests both.
IMATEST is the standard way to test DR but CineD uses a higher SNR threshold.
Contrary to the claims that some people make, the Cine D test is not real world dynamic range.
It is a threshold that they felt would be more useful.
My big problem with them is that they do not test cameras at their optimal settings.
They can argue that is how people will use them in the real world but it is not how people should.
ARRI is the only brand that gets higher in the CineD tests than the claimed dynamic range.
However, ARRI has built-in noise reduction and they make it nearly impossible to choose a bad setting.
ARRI dominates and they should.
However, they are a poor choice for movies with heavy VFX.

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Arri cameras use a dual image pipeline that captures two exposures simultaneously and combines them in camera. This is how they achieve their dynamic range. Arri holds a patent on this technology… and unlike Red who actually licensed their internal Raw patent to all the camera manufacturers; Arri licenses to no one. So until we have pixel level sensitivity from Sony, Canon or Panasonic… all of who hold patents around this tech… cameras will largely remain stuck at about where they are.

As for dynamic range. If you really believe that an iPhone has the same dynamic range as an Arri Alexa…. Then continue to believe IMATEST. If you are actually interested in real-world results then Exposure Latitude test are the measure to go by.

FYI: After reading the CineD test I skeptically purchased the A9III. I wanted to see how it compared to my other cameras. It’s very close to my Reds in dynamic range. Maybe a little better. It soundly defeated my R3… which is one of the reasons I sold it. The Sony has better performance in just about all areas. AF is the best currently available as of this writing. No rolling shutter. Flash performance. No mechanical shutter to worry about failing. For video the image is noisy but cleans up nicely in post…much like my Reds. It manages this in a much smaller footprint than the R3. While the A9III is small, it does not suffer from overheating. It’s impressive tech, and the camera has decent battery life… drawing 1/10th the power as the Reds while sporting a full frame Global Shutter. Oh and the IBIS in dynamic active stab is impressive… Close to Panasonic.

I’m hoping Canon is taking note. Because after the long delay, the R1 needs to clean the floor with the Sony. Rumors put it at 16-bit color depth with mechanical shutter… but I’m not sure how perceivable that will be. I can’t see any noticeable difference in color depth between my 14-bit and 16-bit cameras. I think men in general probably won’t. Women can actually see more colors than men. So maybe 16-bit color is lost on me. Which for many would make 16-bit a useless feature.

I want to believe the R1’s dynamic range will be greatly improved, but from the rumors it will be an incremental improvement. While the extremely fast rolling shutter would have been impressive… that was in a world before the A9III existed. Sony raised the bar by introducing the world’s first mirrorless camera with a global shutter. I’m not sure anyone at Canon expected this advancement. But now the pressure is definitely on Canon to answer persuasively.

I see two straight edges and no visible grip material. That leads me to believe this will be a cube style video camera which makes sense to me. I could be wrong, but I don’t know any canon cube style cameras while everyone else is making them plus there’s the Nikon/red combination now so I bet this is a cube. I just hope it has a decent screen and some stabilization and I would be a buyer.

DBounce said:

Arri cameras use a dual image pipeline that captures two exposures simultaneously and combines them in camera. This is how they achieve their dynamic range. Arri holds a patent on this technology… and unlike Red who actually licensed their internal Raw patent to all the camera manufacturers; Arri licenses to no one. So until we have pixel level sensitivity from Sony, Canon or Panasonic… all of who hold patents around this tech… cameras will largely remain stuck at about where they are.

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Is that not dual gain output (DGO)?? Canon has that in some of their bodies including the C70 after a firmware update I believe

uPhotic said:

Is that not dual gain output (DGO)?? Canon has that in some of their bodies including the C70 after a firmware update I believe

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I don’t think it is. The Canon C70 in DGO mode has a rolling shutter of 15.6 ms vs 7.7 ms in regular mode. The Arri Alexa Classic is 7.4 ms. We see the rolling shutter time doubles on the Canon. There are clearly differences. Perhaps these differences were required to skirt around Arri’s patent?

Canon, Sony and Panasonic all have patents for sensor technologies that on paper appear superior to Arri’s tech. But so far, none of the major manufacturers have released cameras with these sensors.