Canon to bring a new Cinema EOS camea below the Cinema EOS C400?

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Jul 20, 2010
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#1
After years of the Cinema EOS camera lineup being pretty dormant, Canon launched the Cinema EOS C400 and Cinema EOS C80 in September of this year to a pretty positive reception. Both of those cameras have begun shipping, but are currently out of stocck for the moment. Both the Cinema EOS C80 and Cinema EOS

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#4
The R5C still has it's place. There's so many differences between the R5ii and the R5C when it comes to video. R5C is a video first camera not a photo first hybrid. Cinema menu, built in cooling to keep form factor and guarantee no overheating, oversampled from full sensor in all modes, S&F, shutter angle, various monitoring tools, better battery life than the R5ii when both using the new LPE6P batteries. I can definitely see a R5Cii. Now all i'm reading is they are going to release a camera between the C80 and C400. To me that means they are going to make another cinema body style camera, not a mirrorless hybrid. Will it have built in ND's? Will it have a new sensor? Will it reuse an existing new sensor like that we see in the R5ii or C400/C80? Will it have all the XLR/Timecode/SDI/Full HDMI ports we look forward to? What are it's limitations? Will it have a CF Express Type B slot and SD slot or be severely nerfed with dual sd cards? Will it have built in wifi or will you need a $1000 USD battery grip to let you remotely control the camera? So many questions... Can't wait to see what it is. RCii or another level cinema camera with a bigger sensor? For a fact i can see Canon making an 8k full frame cinema camera. R5Cii or bigger box body like the C400 or maybe even the C80, either way it will come and i'm sure there will be variations and limitations to set them apart.

What makes sense from a business standpoint is a R5Cii with no built in ND's, triple base ISO, no SDI, full size HDMI, no xlr, built in cooling, no ibis and in a mirrorless style body.
For the higher end C***, i'll say it'll be a traditional box style body, slightly bigger than the C400, 8k Full Frame, built in ND's, triple base ISO, Full size HDMI, SDI, USB C monitor that can be relocated, smart extension/handle hot shoe, and pretty much everything that you won't be seeing in the R5Cii.

It's all about convenience for the shooter. R5Cii will need to be rigged out more as we've seen with the mark i. the higher end 8k full frame cinema camera (c***) will be more of a ready to shoot out of box for a production type of camera.

These are my thoughts alone, these are based on trends I've seen with previous cameras.
Another interesting thing is they will be coming out with a R3ii (After people thought that was dead)
And we'll be seeing a C70ii (People thought it was also dead)
Super35 isn't dead and has TONS of potential for high end sensors for it's size and requirements.

But again, this is just me :)
 
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#5
A true hybrid like the R5 C absolutely still has a place – as noted by @GTCRMedia, its video recording is worlds apart from the standard still camera video recording (largely thanks to the Cinema EOS operating system). Although it is a bit annoying to reboot the camera and not have all of the latest AF modes from the stills side, I will take those trades 10 times out of 10 to be able to have features like Shutter Angle and the consistency with the other Cinema EOS cameras.

Personally, I think a 45mp sensor (like that in the R5/R5 II) is perfect for this type of camera since it is designed to be a hybrid camera and lower resolution sensors (like the 24mp sensor in the R1) are rather limited in their application for stills nowadays.

What I'd like to see in an R5 C successor (in priority order):
  1. Cinema EOS menus for video
  2. ~45mp sensor
  3. Internal ND*
  4. More powerful internal battery system
  5. Ability to send full power to the PZ-E2/PZ-E2B via the mount (at least when the camera is receiving external power)
  6. Ability to control the camera via an external (USB-C) grip (e.g. the one included with the C400, but ideally with a zoom rocker)
#3 & #4 would almost certainly require a larger body in range of the R3 / R1 ... and I'd be fine with that if it solved those two problems (since the external solutions to Power & ND end up adding more mass & complexity than internal solutions would).

* I know that asking for an internal ND on such a camera seems fanciful, but it would truly make such a camera "the hybrid" with no peer in the industry. (And not just for video shooters: I'm sure photographers would find many creative ways to use ND if it was just a button-press away!)
  • And the C80's design shows that an internal ND mechanism is possible in a body the size of an R1.
    • N.b. Although I can't be certain, the ND filters in the C80 look like they are the 3:2 ratio of a stills sensor ... not the 17:9 ratio of a cinema sensor, as I believe was the case with the C500 II. So use of the exact mechanism may well be a possibility.
  • The only question in my mind would be whether there is room for both the C80's ND mechanism and a mechanical shutter.
    • If the tradeoff meant removing the mechanical shutter, I'd be torn and my preference would be based on how good the electronic shutter mode worked for stills ... if it was half a stop DR loss or less and <10ms rolling shutter, I'd be tempted for such a tradeoff on a "hybrid" body. (Those who wanted mechanical could still get the R5II/R1.)
    • But if there was a way to include both the mechanical shutter and the internal ND, that would be amazing (even if it meant some modification to the ND system such as removing the ability to stack NDs for the "extended" range).

Being able to walk around with just a body and one of new "Z" lenses and flip between photo & video with no need for extra rigging, fiddling with filters, etc, would be truly liberating. That's the dream.

All told, the above wishlist would certainly push such a camera into the price range of the R1. And I think it'd absolutely have a market at that price – after all, it would have no peers. And it would leave Canon's lineup topped by a pair of flagships (somewhat like what Sony has with the high-mp A1 and the low-mp A9); albeit, a much more interesting pair (imho).

Canon's investment into the hybrid "Z" lenses really gives me hope that Canon believes in properly developing the hybrid market ... boosting my hope that the (fantastic!) R5 C wasn't just a one off.
 
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#8
Rocco Germani said:
Give me an R6C
Click to expand...
Uuuuffff not going to lie that would kill the game lol
6K Full Frame with 24.1 MP and internal 12 bit RAW up to 60fps (or maybe even a slightly higher MP count to introduce a higher sampled 6K)
Dual Native ISO or even triple base
Internal cooling
No IBIS
possibly internal ND (doubt cause it'll cross into C80)
Timecode

All in a mirrorless body

i'm all for it!!!
 
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#9
GTCRMedia said:
The R5C still has it's place. There's so many differences between the R5ii and the R5C when it comes to video. R5C is a video first camera not a photo first hybrid. Cinema menu, built in cooling to keep form factor and guarantee no overheating, oversampled from full sensor in all modes, S&F, shutter angle, various monitoring tools, better battery life than the R5ii when both using the new LPE6P batteries. I can definitely see a R5Cii. Now all i'm reading is they are going to release a camera between the C80 and C400. To me that means they are going to make another cinema body style camera, not a mirrorless hybrid. Will it have built in ND's? Will it have a new sensor? Will it reuse an existing new sensor like that we see in the R5ii or C400/C80? Will it have all the XLR/Timecode/SDI/Full HDMI ports we look forward to? What are it's limitations? Will it have a CF Express Type B slot and SD slot or be severely nerfed with dual sd cards? Will it have built in wifi or will you need a $1000 USD battery grip to let you remotely control the camera? So many questions... Can't wait to see what it is. RCii or another level cinema camera with a bigger sensor? For a fact i can see Canon making an 8k full frame cinema camera. R5Cii or bigger box body like the C400 or maybe even the C80, either way it will come and i'm sure there will be variations and limitations to set them apart.

What makes sense from a business standpoint is a R5Cii with no built in ND's, triple base ISO, no SDI, full size HDMI, no xlr, built in cooling, no ibis and in a mirrorless style body.
For the higher end C***, i'll say it'll be a traditional box style body, slightly bigger than the C400, 8k Full Frame, built in ND's, triple base ISO, Full size HDMI, SDI, USB C monitor that can be relocated, smart extension/handle hot shoe, and pretty much everything that you won't be seeing in the R5Cii.

It's all about convenience for the shooter. R5Cii will need to be rigged out more as we've seen with the mark i. the higher end 8k full frame cinema camera (c***) will be more of a ready to shoot out of box for a production type of camera.

These are my thoughts alone, these are based on trends I've seen with previous cameras.
Another interesting thing is they will be coming out with a R3ii (After people thought that was dead)
And we'll be seeing a C70ii (People thought it was also dead)
Super35 isn't dead and has TONS of potential for high end sensors for it's size and requirements.

But again, this is just me :)
Click to expand...
I like your train of thought 100%
 
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#10
The R5c is just simply too much into the R5mk2 & C80 region. It's a pain in the butt as an R5 stills camera if its rigged out. It simply didn't work for me being rigged out and then attempting to shoot stills too. Nope, that didn't work for my shooting styles. A rigged out cine cam is gonna stay rigged out like forever until its time to pack up. I simply chose to use the R5, now R5mk2 as my stills camera.
 
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#13
jam05 said:
The R5c is just simply too much into the R5mk2 & C80 region. It's a pain in the butt as an R5 stills camera if its rigged out. It simply didn't work for me being rigged out and then attempting to shoot stills too. Nope, that didn't work for my shooting styles. A rigged out cine cam is gonna stay rigged out like forever until its time to pack up. I simply chose to use the R5, now R5mk2 as my stills camera.
Click to expand...
R5C is a video first cinema camera not mainly for stills. Completely different from the R5ii and has 0 chance of overheating.
 
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#14
R5C MkII for me as well.
Wishlist:
- Fullsize HDMI
- Second USB-C port for external power while being controlled via Ronin gimbal or recording to external SSD
- Barrel type terminal for external power supply as alternative (like on C70)
- Eye controlled AF
- Bluetooth start/stop and control available not only in stills mode but also video mode

Biggest drawbacks of C70 (own it) C80 and C400 are the lack of an EVF and the missing option to record to external SSD.

Other than that I love the hybrid nature, use the R5C for both stills and video almost 50/50.
 
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#15
Quackator said:
R5C MkII for me as well.
Wishlist:
- Fullsize HDMI
- Second USB-C port for external power while being controlled via Ronin gimbal or recording to external SSD
- Barrel type terminal for external power supply as alternative (like on C70)
- Eye controlled AF
- Bluetooth start/stop and control available not only in stills mode but also video mode

Biggest drawbacks of C70 (own it) C80 and C400 are the lack of an EVF and the missing option to record to external SSD.

Other than that I love the hybrid nature, use the R5C for both stills and video almost 50/50.
Click to expand...
OMG i didn't even think about that. A second USB C port would be genius. Or at least give us built in bluetooth and wifi in cinema mode. I'm happy with either to be able to connect to the ronin to start/stop recording.
 
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#16
Quackator said:
R5C MkII for me as well.
Wishlist:
- Fullsize HDMI
- Second USB-C port for external power while being controlled via Ronin gimbal or recording to external SSD
- Barrel type terminal for external power supply as alternative (like on C70)
- Eye controlled AF
- Bluetooth start/stop and control available not only in stills mode but also video mode

Biggest drawbacks of C70 (own it) C80 and C400 are the lack of an EVF and the missing option to record to external SSD.

Other than that I love the hybrid nature, use the R5C for both stills and video almost 50/50.
Click to expand...
+1. I'll pre-order sight unseen. After 2+ yrs the R5 C has grown on me immensely. I liked it when I got it. Now I love it. I was a stills shooter and skipped the R5 for one simple reason. Overheating. Was it as serious as everyone initially reported, probably not. Has it been largely mitigated with subsequent firmware, yes. Am I glad I waited and purchased the R5 C, absolutely. It fit my needs. I don't begrudge anyone for wanting ibis (R5) or ND's (C70). I knew what I was getting. I was ok with what I got and years later, it still works for me. I can easily go toe to toe with any R5 owner and then with a flip of the switch, KaPOW! Either is a good body. Just depends on need.
 
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#18
jam05 said:
The R5c is just simply too much into the R5mk2 & C80 region. It's a pain in the butt as an R5 stills camera if its rigged out. It simply didn't work for me being rigged out and then attempting to shoot stills too. Nope, that didn't work for my shooting styles. A rigged out cine cam is gonna stay rigged out like forever until its time to pack up. I simply chose to use the R5, now R5mk2 as my stills camera.
Click to expand...
I think this is pretty valid. There is still a meaningful R5C use case for user like me, however, who are stills-first shooters who want to travel into the field with two bodies but who absolutely need their video rigged out body to be able to serve as a stills backup in the even that the primary stills body goes down. If I head out with an R5 (or R52) and a C70 or C80, and my R5/2 goes down, I have no stills capability, which is my most important form of capture when working. If I head out with an R5/2 and an R5C, I have a video-first body rigged out but in the unlikely even that the R5/2 goes down, I can un-rig the R5C and still have a very capable stills backup in my hands.

I realize this isn't *most* shooters, but I imagine this set of priorities isn't all that rare, etiher.
 
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#19
hatch said:
...There is still a meaningful R5C use case for user like me, however, who are stills-first shooters who want to travel into the field with two bodies but who absolutely need their video rigged out body to be able to serve as a stills backup in the even that the primary stills body goes down...
Click to expand...
That's an interesting use-case! (If an R5 C II came around, I wonder if I might keep around the R5 C instead of selling it for just such a purpose...)

For me, the R5 C is essential for when I need to travel very light (just what I can cary in my backpack) and need one body which can do both photos and video.

Previously, I was a bit torn because I always wanted to use me CN-E 18-80 with it for video, but not for stills (since it is a S35 lens) - so I ended up carrying one body but with 2 duplicate lenses for the normal range. However, now with the 24-105 2.8 "Z" (and hopefully soon more lenses from the same series) to pair with the R5 C, almost everything is perfectly shared from photo to video: the body, the lenses, etc. Only annoyances are having to twist on a front ND filter for video and having to battery strategy. I now have more capability in 1 backpack than I could have ever imagined 5 years back. Really hoping Canon continues to make this type of "true hybrid" in each generation ... and if they could squeeze in an internal ND system, that'd cement this as the world's best hybrid.
 
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