Opinion: Let's redo the APS-C lineup in 2025. Please.

#61
josephandrews222 said:
Are you calling me a dinosaur?!:unsure:

o_O
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I'm a former M3/M6 + 22mm user, so I must be one too :) (btw, loved the 17-85 efs on the M6)

The reality is, as you well know, that most users would be satisfied with an iPhone. Instead of pouring resources into apsc, I think what we're seeing is ff being the dedicated camera's last stand, even if that means small and compact being not that small and compact (eg. Panasonic S9). It would make more sense to me for Canon to invest in an RPm2 for those desiring compact quality, rather than trying to do it on the dying crop sensor.

In regards to the 7D market and those wanting a true mirrorless successor, I feel that the electronic shutter has rendered that segment irrelevant. I remember marveling at a body that could get over 10 fps in the mechanical era, now the r6m2 gets 40 fps, and if one needs the extra reach, there's the r5m2, both are orders of magnitude faster than the 7d. It's similar to what's happening in the automobile market, electric cars are rendering ICE sports cars irrelevant, the Lucid Air for example can out-accelerate 99% of ICE sports cars and even supercars. I understand it's not all about straight-line speed, just like the 7D is not all about fps, but it is a big part of what defined them, and one that has been rendered irrelevant by the newer and more capable mainstream models.

Please don't get me wrong - I have fond memories of apsc (M3, M6, and 70D) and definitely prefer the IQ over the iPhone. But the 10 year trend-line in my reference, plus the fact that there has been little to no compelling crop products (either bodies or lenses) for some time, all point to ff being the main focus for the big guns of Canon/Sony/Nikon/Panasonic.
 
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#64
If Canon would make the R7 II a mini version of the R5 II with a 32.5 stacked sensor I would not hesitate to pay $3000 or more. For birding, reach is most important, especially the small warblers. I found that even with the limitations that the current R7 has, I could get better results with it than the R5. The R5 is absolutely a better camera for most things, but for small birds, reach rules. Give us an R7 II .
 
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#65
Where is the love for the RP? Never mentioned in the FF Canon line up.
I'm not expecting a refresh but is still the longest surviving R mount full frame body which is impressive as Canon hasn't gone down the Sony path of retaining previous models with the R and R6 are already obsolete R mount bodies.
At USD900, it is still good value despite the limitation of using older spare parts. Perfect as a backup and for timelapse/star trails for me.
 
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#66
neuroanatomist said:
Of course not! How could that thing even compete with Sony? I mean, it’s not like it has anything in common with Sony’s ZV series. I mean, sure the Powershot V10 uses the same 1” sensor that’s in the Sony ZV-1F. But you know, I mean other than that. ;)
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Canon could release a higher specced version with bigger battery and better cooling for long form recording though.

My karate club uses a pair of the Sonys for webcam teaching for redundancy and when one overheats. Needs to be on for hours at a time and the smallish teaching area doesn't have great airflow especially with lights.
https://onlinedojo.gkrkarate.com/
 
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#67
esspy2 said:
I still love using my M6 Mark II. The 61mm lenses and cute body design is amazing. When paired with the built in flash and removable EVF, it really is a camera that can do it all. My 32mm lens still can’t quite fully resolve the sensor at F/1.4, but the 50mm is lovely and I really miss the size advantage when I pick up my R6 or R10.

Side note: the rangefinder design is so approachable compared to the DSLR-esque bodies. I think Canon figured out a beautiful control structure with the triple dials, AF/MF switch, and the AF-On button. I have so much adaptability in such a small package. People around me aren’t put on notice when I take the M6 out and I am so self conscious when I bring out a camera so I gravitate towards using my M6 Mark II, X-E4, and Powershot compacts for most days
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Which Powershot compacts do you utilize in your shooting?
 
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#68
As for R7ii, if they used the R5ii body then the existing grips would fit automatically :)

I'm not sure that the joystick would be needed with eye control or lose both to reduce cost and leave the rear screen (or BBF etc) for moving the focus point if needed.
It seems that the R5ii now has metering at the focus point (previously only a 1 series feature) so that would be ideal for birders if kept in the R7ii
 
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#71
David - Sydney said:
Where is the love for the RP? Never mentioned in the FF Canon line up.
I'm not expecting a refresh but is still the longest surviving R mount full frame body which is impressive as Canon hasn't gone down the Sony path of retaining previous models with the R and R6 are already obsolete R mount bodies.
At USD900, it is still good value despite the limitation of using older spare parts. Perfect as a backup and for timelapse/star trails for me.
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The R8 seems to be the RPII, at a higher pricepoint.
 
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#72
Andreasb said:
For heavens sake fix the mirror slap at slower shutter speeds.

Go back to standard UX (rear wheel placement for example)

And finally Canon we need a RF-S standard zoom 24-105 (15-85mm?) equivalent, preferably F4. Not 18mm but 15 at the wider end.
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The shutter* slap, yes, is frustrating. I remember getting my R7 in early July and noticing that even around 1/200, the mechanical shutter just blurred everything. I pretty much exclusively use EFCS and the occasional ES.

The rear wheel is a contentious one for sure. I personally like the positioning, but because it's smaller than a normal aperture wheel, it's a bit of an effort to rotate if you have above average hands/thumbs.

I wish Canon was more inclined to produce quality APS-C lenses, but I think that ship has sailed, and they have effectively outsourced to Sigma and Tamron. Sigma has been historically not afraid to produce quality and unique niche lenses with few or no competitors. The two zooms and the primes coming later are ones I'm readily looking forward to. For now, I'll be sticking with my EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS for the IS. When the Sigma 18-50mm comes out, I'll likely pick that up for the native mount, and weight/size.
Bob Howland said:
Or Canon could let Sigma make their 23 and 30 DC DN C lenses and take their revenues in the form of licensing fees.
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Bob, I believe they are doing just that! Sigma will be releasing a number of lenses in the next 6 months or so.
 
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#74
Crossfire said:
I think hierarchy, yes probably. But the R8 is such a better product than the RPII. The original gen R cameras (R and RP) were proof of concept, really. The succeeding cameras have proven themselves time and time again.
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The RP was the first RF camera I bought and I used it happily till I got my R5. The R8 is indeed a lot more than I would've expected from an RP successor!
 
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#75
Richard CR said:
lenses for sure.

Sounds like this year is wrapping up the Z line.

as far as APS-C lenses - they could easily do the EF-M 32mm, 22mm which were very good lenses. the macro 28mm was a good starter lens as well for people to get into the RF-S system.

none of that is difficult, just takes some will for canon to do it.

lens and camera body development and release I do believe is handled by different groups within imaging and obviously the fabrication is handled differently as well.
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I think it would be nice to have an optically and mechanically improved successor to the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 lens, but that may be already too much on the enthusiast's side of photographic life. Enthusiasts today mostly prefer FF if they want to use their sophisticated lenses I guess (I do at least). But adding some small primes and a light & compact 18-85mm zoom would make sense. The zoom range of the current RF-S 18-45mm might be a bit too short for those who want to travel with a light gear and maybe two lenses only.
 
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#76
justaCanonuser said:
I think it would be nice to have an optically and mechanically improved successor to the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 lens, but that may be already too much on the enthusiast's side of photographic life. Enthusiasts today mostly prefer FF if they want to use their sophisticated lenses I guess (I do at least). But adding some small primes and a light & compact 18-85mm zoom would make sense. The zoom range of the current RF-S 18-45mm might be a bit too short for those who want to travel with a light gear and maybe two lenses only.
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The Sigma 18-50 f/2.8 is slightly longer and f/2.8. I loved using the original M with the 11-22 and 18-50 while travelling, it's sad that Canon doesn't have a contemporary version of that bundle.
 
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#77
R7ii should be stacked, 30~33 or 24~26MP will do for me. Dual CFB will be ideal, but CFB+SD is acceptable if it's cheaper than R6ii/R6iii.

R10 is the one should stop making, it is no difference to R50 from the core. Just having more "enthusiast" control layout doesn't justify its existence.
If Canon really introduces successor and not shift down R7's MSRP to R10. R10ii should be using R7 non-stacked FSI 33MP, IBIS, updated AF as R7ii, uses LP-E6NH/E6P, Dual SD.

R50ii is simple, it's pretty perfect at the beginning, just update AF, have 4k60 crop, IBIS. And price the same as R50. On top of that make a silver version of the RF-S 18-150 as kit. You will have a killing model.

R100ii just give back the touchscreen ffs.

I would like to have 2 models of EVF-less models to compete with ZV-E10ii, M43, Fuji & Z30.
1. R60 An EVF-less version of R50ii
2. R80 A R60 without IBIS.
Introduce EVF-DC3. And allows compatibility with EVF-DC2/1.
 
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#78
Well this article summarizes my latest thoughts learning more and more about the general market and trends, thanks for the "roadmap" !

Going into this hobby in the last few years has me thinking my user case seems to be less shared than I thought it would be as I am a humble beginner and not really fond of the idea to spend thousands of euros into great full frame system and lenses. And in the meantime still attached to the "object" of the camera as I wouldn't see myself taking thousands of photos with a top-tier phone.
But still, wanting to upgrade bit by bit on aps-c systems quickly left me thinking manufacters don't want to make higher grade lenses for aps-c as much as generally compact and light-weight ones. Or make people switch to full frame systems where the offer on lenses is much more diverse.

I hope the rumors on Canon evolving its aps-c bodies would transfer on lenses. Either Canon or Tamron/Sigma at this point. The latest annoucements from these two let me hope but I'd be glad to see offers on a focal range just a bit wider than the "classic" 18-50
 
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#79
Aldherrian said:
But still, wanting to upgrade bit by bit on aps-c systems quickly left me thinking manufacters don't want to make higher grade lenses for aps-c as much as generally compact and light-weight ones. Or make people switch to full frame systems where the offer on lenses is much more diverse.
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The exception to that is Fuji, who do make high-quality APS-C bodies and lenses. Of course, they are not cheap… You might end up putting together a less expensive system based around an R8 that would deliver similar image quality as a final output. The Fuji system would have the advantage of a more compact overall size, but not really by much if you are using non-L lenses.

You are certainly correct that other manufacturers want to push you into full frame. The profit margins on the higher end lenses are to their advantage.
 
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#80
OK, I recognize this is an unlikely conspiracy theory, but...

Could it be that the R3 was originally going to be a crop camera, the first R7? But their chip designs turned out to be able to handle the throughput (then the limiting factor), so they upped it to full frame?

That would explain why they designed two R1-style cameras and then released them a few years apart. I'm not saying it's true, but it scratched the itch in my head for coming up with a more rational reason for the R3/R1 swaparoo. It would also explain why the R7 we got was more like an R70.
 
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