Canon has discontinued another EOS M camera

lustyd said:

I am confused, your own post said you didn't think Canon would abandon the market. As I said, Canon Japan is a sales region which has apparently stopped selling a product. The document doesn't say anything about manufacturing. People here are filling in the gaps with their own imaginations because they want to believe M is already dead. It's not. It probably will be soon, but that's just speculation based on nothing but a general trend.

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Have a look at B&H. There are 7 flavors of M6II bodies/kits, of which 6 are listed as discontinued. Or maybe I imagined this screenshot...



I said I don't think they will abandon the M line. I could easily be wrong. CRguy raises a good point that bodies are not as profitable for Canon as lenses (Canon has stated this), and M body sales probably don't significantly drive lens sales.

If the M50 II is their most popular model of the line globally (it certainly is in Japan), then keeping just that one makes sense. For now. Looking at BCN (camera sales in Japan), the M50 II has been spending time in the bottom half of the top 10 lately. It used to live reliably in the top three, the R10 has been outselling the M50 II for at least two months (could be the new camera effect, though). By comparison, the M200 is typically not even in the top 50 on BCN (although it was last month at #39).

neuroanatomist said:

Have a look at B&H. There are 7 flavors of M6II bodies/kits, of which 6 are listed as discontinued. Or maybe I imagined this screenshot...

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I said I don't think they will abandon the M line. I could easily be wrong. CRguy raises a good point that bodies are not as profitable for Canon as lenses (Canon has stated this), and M body sales probably don't significantly drive lens sales.

If the M50 II is their most popular model of the line globally (it certainly is in Japan), then keeping just that one makes sense. For now. Looking at BCN (camera sales in Japan), the M50 II has been spending time in the bottom half of the top 10 lately. It used to live reliably in the top three, the R10 has been outselling the M50 II for at least two months (could be the new camera effect, though). By comparison, the M200 is typically not even in the top 50 on BCN (although it was last month at #39).

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Yes, Amazon in the UK looked like that a few months ago and then they were all brought back and plenty of stock available, same in camera shops and department stores here. Often the bundle SKUs will be removed to streamline supply chain, allowing fewer SKUs while still meeting demand. You can still buy the basic kit and lenses separately. This is just optimisation though, and happens all the time in supply chain.

I don't know why there's a debate over the M6 II being discontinued. The evidence is pretty clear that it has been. It's possible Canon is discontinuing current M models to introduce new ones, given how successful they have been over the years. But it is also possible they are going to consolidate everything to RF with the next R body releases.

I would like to see the M line stick around because I don't believe Canon can get an R body and RF lenses down to that size. The M bodies/lenses really were perfect travel/casual cameras, and a perfect replacement for older P&S cameras.

brent1395 said:

I've been shooting Canon my entire photography life (about 20 years) and it seems they are leaving me no choice but to switch to a competitor. It's truly bizarre.

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You do have another choice: keep using your current equipment as long as it meets your needs and it keeps working, or until you succumb to GAS.

stevelee said:

You do have another choice: keep using your current equipment as long as it meets your needs and it keeps working, or until you succumb to GAS.

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You're saying that cameras and lenses actually keep working after someone on the interwebs has said they are discontinued!?!?!?!

stevelee said:

You do have another choice: keep using your current equipment as long as it meets your needs and it keeps working, or until you succumb to GAS.

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The pandemic really changed my life. Now I dare not to take any cruise ( used to take a bout 3 or 4 long cruise a year), or land tour ( not comfortable to eat with stranger on the same table). Interest in photography also declined ( I used to like to take close up of flowers, spiders etc). Grand kids have grown up. So I have no use of a new camera . I just hang on to my M50.

Canon Rumors Guy said:

No money in cameras, lenses have the margins.

That 30% number is fine, but it's not like all of those sales are going to go to someone else. The EOS R system will simply take its place, which is why brand power matters, and Canon has that in spades.

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SPOILER ALERT:

What follows is...on the one hand, intelligent conjecture...and on the other hand, uninformed speculation. The post didn't end up the way I envisioned...and the Google-aided translation may be totally wrong/out of context.

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I'm trying to imagine the lower limit of the size-and-weight of the ''R100"--




Presumably the R100 will not have the viewfinder/pop-up flash bump...but the image above (M200 on left; R10 on right) nicely illustrates the size difference between the M and R mounts.

A different comparison is also revealing--M50II vs R10




Here it can be seen that Canon looks to have made a real effort to make the R10 as small as possible; it is a bit shorter than the M5 MkII.

So even if the R100 has the M200's 'candy-bar' profile, it won't be that much smaller than the R10.

...for my own family/travel/street photography, size-and-mass matters. A lot.

Even with (some-as-yet-unannounced) new RF-S lenses, Canon's R-based small-and-light commitment doesn't make sense to me: an R camera cannot simply take the place of a similarly-specced M camera--not for me nor for either of my daughters.

Both of them found it quite easy to transition from their Canon ELPH 300 cameras to the first-gen M (eight years ago?!)...




...their eagerness to 'try' the M-EF M 22mm combination--I was surprised because they both gave me 'The Heisman' (as in "no way, Dad") when I handed them Digital Rebels--they wanted no part of that.

I was reminded of (at least for me) the import of size a week or so ago.

Our new two-person kayak made its maiden voyage and youngest daughter demanded 'proof' that we actually put it in the water...with Mom and Dad actually inside.

I didn't want to take my plus-sized iPhone out on the water so I put my own ELPH 300 back into service to use as a tool to supply the evidence.

It hadn't left the drawer containing point-and-shoot cameras, chargers and batteries...in years.

After charging the battery...on the water, perfectly useful images and videos resulted. I was not surprised--as long as ISO remains low, the ELPH 300 really delivers.

And my-oh-my, the tiny camera itself was such a pleasure to use (as opposed to using an iPhone...which I use daily). And it was ever-so-easy to remove the ELPH from the pocket in my cargo shorts.

I have now purchased an apparently-new WP-DC320L waterproof underwater housing (via eBay...a Canadian seller!) to enable less water worry on my part.

...and also via eBay (an English seller!), I have purchased a similar underwater housing (Meikon, supposedly good for ten meters depth) for my trusty Canon S95, a point-and-shoot that offers more manual control and a slightly larger sensor than the ELPH 300.

[...and I see on eBay that a Meikon housing can be had for the M2-EF-M 18-55mm combination--direct from China...at a fair price]

I write all of this to supply evidence for my experience with digital Canons...from the oh-so-tiny SD10 and ELPH 300, to the full-frame 5D series connected to white Canon lenses (not yet R).

The M series of cameras and lenses...occupy an important place in my mind when selecting the best tool for the job; the Ms offer, for Canon, perfectly serviceable APS-C sensors in the smallest possible bodies.

I am not alone in this regard, and I remain mystified by Canon's thinking...it must come down to dollars and sense!



As CR readers know, Canon fiddles and diddles with specifications, so it is difficult to compare cameras such as the M6 MkII, the R7 and the R10.

The M6 MkII's specs place it between the R7 and R10--it has (sort of) the same sensor as the R7 (32 Mpixels) while the M200 has (sort of) the same sensor as the R10 (24 Mpixels).

[The more modern Rs have distinct Digic-related advantages (compared to the M6 MkII).]

But look at the (body only) prices: R7--$1,500; R10--$980; M6 MkII--$850; M200 (with kit lens)--$550.

Canon's EF-M lenses have always been reasonably priced...and an incredible value, in my view.

Perhaps doru to kankaku really is in play for Canon Tokyo.

Rocky said:

The pandemic really changed my life. Now I dare not to take any cruise ( used to take a bout 3 or 4 long cruise a year), or land tour ( not comfortable to eat with stranger on the same table). Interest in photography also declined ( I used to like to take close up of flowers, spiders etc). Grand kids have grown up. So I have no use of a new camera . I just hang on to my M50.

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I traveled so much in 2019 that I wouldn’t have gone much of anywhere in 2020 anyway. I spent 4 nights in Dallas in March, 2020, right before things shut down. Staying home meant that I did more with photography around here. I rented the 24mm and later the 17mm TS-E lenses and had a good time with them. For traveling, I use the G5X II. I got it before my second trip to Europe that year, and took over 3,000 pictures with it. Back home the last two years I used my DSLR even more than usual. Besides the tilt-shift stuff I did more macros and some special projects for our neighborhood newsletter.

Saw this coming. It's too bad, I like the small factor of the M and its lenses, but I guess it is what it is. Glad I picked up a refurb copy a couple months ago. I'd encourage anyone else interested in the M system to make moves now while you still can...

lustyd said:

If you have some sort of evidence, perhaps you could share it rather than simply insisting you're right?

If Japan is such a big market, isn't it weird that they are choosing to send their last stock to other markets and cut off the very people who want them most?

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Sorry, but I think you need professional help. You were shown the list from Canon. How do you know where they've sent their last stock or where they want it the most? Show your evidence! In fact, since Canon says it is discontinued, why don't you show your evidence it is still produced contrary to what Canon says. Don't you have some other dead horse to beat the $@#& out of? Or are you going to keep screaming the world is flat?

Ozarker said:

Sorry, but I think you need professional help. You were shown the list from Canon. How do you know where they've sent their last stock or where they want it the most? Show your evidence! In fact, since Canon says it is discontinued, why don't you show your evidence it is still produced contrary to what Canon says. Don't you have some other dead horse to beat the $@#& out of? Or are you going to keep screaming the world is flat?

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To be fair he has a valid point, which is that an item listed as discontinued on Canon Japan’s website certainly means it’s discontinued in Japan, but doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s discontinued globally.

Pretty clear that the M6II is no longer in production – most M6II flavors also show as discontinued on B&H as well. Out of stock means more can be ordered, discontinued means out and more cannot be ordered. Doesn’t mean retailers won’t be selling stock for some time to come.

brent1395 said:

I don't really understand Canon's strategy for M users. I get that it's more efficient for them manufacture just one lens mount, but if I want to get an updated body with all the benefits of the M system, my only choice is to sell all my Canon gear and switch to a different brand.

All the RF gear is too big, too expensive, or too slow, or in most cases, all of the above. With no way to adapt all my M lenses I spent the last several years and $x,xxx accumulating, there's nothing tying me to the Canon brand any longer.

I've been shooting Canon my entire photography life (about 20 years) and it seems they are leaving me no choice but to switch to a competitor. It's truly bizarre.

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What is bizarre about getting rid of all of your M gear, so you can potentially replace it with a r100 or r10 with no lenses for the garbage they have available for crop. What a lack of replacements for the 32 1.4 or the 11 to 22, much less the 22 f2. There is plenty of $2,000 lenses for you to attach to the shiny new r crop camera..

Nothing bizzare there. Nothing at all!

Being serious though, they are going to re-house some of the M lenses or there is sure to be a launch of more RFS crop when the RF100 drops... Because the scenario for RFS right now is beyond just bad, it's downright stupid as hell. And don't get me started on the non-L RF lenses. What a bunch of trash basic BS.

Canon is living its best life with the R5 and R6 and r3. Everything else is jokes.

neuroanatomist said:

To be fair he has a valid point, which is that an item listed as discontinued on Canon Japan’s website certainly means it’s discontinued in Japan, but doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s discontinued globally.

Pretty clear that the M6II is no longer in production – most M6II flavors also show as discontinued on B&H as well. Out of stock means more can be ordered, discontinued means out and more cannot be ordered. Doesn’t mean retailers won’t be selling stock for some time to come.

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Well isn't that nice. My third m62 which I originally bought new has the dreaded battery failure that they don't even fix in house.

I'll be damned if they swap my body with another rerub... 2 refurbs for a camera that I bought new. At least this one auto focuses properly.

Good luck to m62 owners out there...quality control is horrendous.

Ozarker said:

On closeout? No way! You might need to clear your cache. ;} When you don't keep your cache cleared the "discontinued virus" spreads to retailers and posts discontinued all over product pages at random. There are variants too: "Closeout" "Sold Out" etc. The vaccine is administered by clearing your cache./S

Rumors guy just posted a photo of the virus. It looks like this:View attachment 206041

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Why are you quoting my post in this manner? I never argued about this fact I dug up the info on Adorama after your screen shot on BH. My post was in support of the facts on both sites. I also was advising another poster from New Zealand looking to buy the silver model, and where they could find it instead of BH. You are confusing me with the other guy that asked you to clear your cache.

lustyd said:

If you have some sort of evidence, perhaps you could share it rather than simply insisting you're right?

If Japan is such a big market, isn't it weird that they are choosing to send their last stock to other markets and cut off the very people who want them most?

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On Canon's US site, the only configuration of M6 II currently available for sale is the refurbished silver model (body only). And it's now on sale for $549. All other variations (new and refurbished, body only and kit) are "out of stock." I have never seen the refurbished model offered that low. Seems they are trying to clear out any remaining inventory for good.

shadow said:

Why are you quoting my post in this manner? I never argued about this fact I dug up the info on Adorama after your screen shot on BH. My post was in support of the facts on both sites. I also was advising another poster from New Zealand looking to buy the silver model, and where they could find it instead of BH. You are confusing me with the other guy that asked you to clear your cache.

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No. My problem trying to be cute and sarcastic at the same time. I know you're not the guy. "Closeout" was there and I was trying to be funny because even more evidence of discontinued popped up. I meant no Ill will towards you. Just trying to crack a joke. I was the only one who thought it funny. Sorry.

ashmadux said:

What is bizarre about getting rid of all of your M gear, so you can potentially replace it with a r100 or r10 with no lenses for the garbage they have available for crop.

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Non-crop lenses will work just fine, the RF16 and RF50 are pretty small.

Having said that, I would like to see the response to all eight 2023 lenses being RF-s

neuroanatomist said:

Here’s what I don’t get: earlier this year, Canon stated that 30% of cameras they sell are EOS M. Does it really make sense for Canon to abandon a market comprising that fraction of their sales?

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I'm thinking the majority of that 30% is the M50 II. Maybe the M200 and M6 II were under 5% and not worth it to keep going?

Ozarker said:

No. My problem trying to be cute and sarcastic at the same time. I know you're not the guy. "Closeout" was there and I was trying to be funny because even more evidence of discontinued popped up. I meant no I'll will towards you. Just trying to crack a joke. I was the only one who thought it funny. Sorry.

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Apology accepted. I didn't know you were expressing the sarcasm elsewher. Subject matter "discontinued" , lol.

I was heading out today locally to buy another M50 while they are still in stock, but hesitated and still trying to figure out my direction. The M6ii's sold out a month ago and the 90D too, neither will be restocked. The R, RP, R10, R7, R5, R3 are all in stock, and none of which really interest me (except the R10) without AF lens that are fast, small, and inexpensive. Maybe next decade an R wide angle lens like the 11mm F1.8 Sony E I just bought.

lustyd said:

What makes you sure it's not?

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> What makes you sure it's not?

I've been a software engineer for two physical products in my career. Both were pretty short production runs, on the order of 10% of the time the product was sold. The products then sat in a warehouse until actually sold. Maybe Canon's different. Maybe they have 38 production lines, and are constantly manufacturing every camera and lens in their lineup in little trickles. If manufacturing were a job just a few people could do, and the assembly line was only a few stations, it'd be easy to set up a lot of them, but these products seem to be getting more and more complicated, The more steps involved, the longer a production line, and the larger a percentage of the workforce it would require.

For sake of illustration, if you had 30 products, your products took a 50-person assembly line, and you had 100 factory workers, and your factory had space for 100 workstations simultaneously, you could make two products at any given time, and would probably be assembling two products at any given time, and keeping a large stock of the other 36, constantly drawing down.
Another reason I think it may work like this is that constant production often has "rolling changes" whereby they start using some parts of the new model while still using parts of the old model. For instance I've seen an Eden WT-800 bass guitar amp, something with similar complexity to a Canon camera perhaps, with "series 1" style speaker connectors but "series 2" fan grills. It's quite common with cars too. I have never seen Canon gear or any other camera gear in the modern with rolling changes like this. That hints that production runs are discontinuous.