Canon Patent Application: Active Cooling Grip Revisited

#41
definedphotography said:
Like the new GH7 for example? oh wait, that has a fan ;) And there was a Fuji (?) that had a fan attachment. A lot of the competitors cameras do overheat. They do take longer to do it though.

Facts are with super fast storage and high bitrate video, you're going to generate heat when recording. It has to go somewhere. Obviously the R6 & R5 weren't quite built to get rid of the heat well. The other Canon DSLR cameras you mentioned don't do video nearly as good as the newer R-series bodies - lower bitrate, line skipping, soft looking output etc.
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Do they overheat at 1080p (no models with fan)?
 
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#42
mariosk1gr said:
I'm from Greece and do also weddings mostly at summer. So the temperatures in my country are between 32-39sometimes 40C. For R6 to overheat at 1080p is unacceptable! I understnd it overheats at 4k but not at 1080p! I don't think there is any overheat from competition when recording 1080p!
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If other cameras don't have that problem, it's a fair criticism. I'm genuinely surprised any sensitive electronic device can withstand that though. Do you shield them at all - with an umbrella, or aluminium foil, say?
 
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#43
Richard CR said:
You are comparing an R6 against a C100 (internal fan), C70 (internal fan), and a BM 6K Pro (internal fan). The R6 does not have an internal fan and surprisingly overheats. the bitrate really doesn't influence the sensor heat - what does is the size of the sensor, oversampling and framerate. C100 (not full frame), C70 (not full frame) and BM 6k (not full frame) against - an oversampled full frame sensor, clocking at well over 100 frames per second (because I'm pretty sure it had to AF too).

and here you are complaining that the R5 Mark II may get an optional add on internal fan for the very problem you are experiencing and that Canon is looking to resolve in one of the best compromises between using the R5 Mark II as a video camera versus a stills camera. STill allow for the smaller form factor for photographers, and if videographers want to use it 37C in the sun and expect miracles - then there's a addon cooling grip for you.
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Yes I understand all of these as I have worked with many Canon cameras over the last 16 years (since 5DII). I'm complaining because the competition can record in 4k 10-bit 422 with their stills cameras for very long times and Canon does not sometimes in 1080p! I'mfrom Greece so the temperatures are the whole summer like thiswith minor differences so that's not an excuse!
 
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#44
scyrene said:
If other cameras don't have that problem, it's a fair criticism. I'm genuinely surprised any sensitive electronic device can withstand that though. Do you shield them at all - with an umbrella, or aluminium foil, say?
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You got my point, yes Canon need to catch the competition in some areas! I'm a Canon user for so many years and Canon stills bodies regarding video are behind competition! To answer the other question yes when I can I use an umbrella but I cannot always do that in every job cause sometimes I have to move often and cannot carry an umbrella with me.
 
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#45
mariosk1gr said:
Yes I understand all of these as I have worked with many Canon cameras over the last 16 years (since 5DII). I'm complaining because the competition can record in 4k 10-bit 422 with their stills cameras for very long times and Canon does not sometimes in 1080p! I'mfrom Greece so the temperatures are the whole summer like thiswith minor differences so that's not an excuse!
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in 37c direct sunlight with the same sensor sampling? you sure? the cameras you mentioned are actively cooled AND smaller sensors - so which ones have you tried in the same environment?

I can certainly suggest reading a sony manual about burn warnings sometime - all cameras overheat, especially in significantly warm environments unless they have active cooling.

the temperature doesn't matter much but direct sun AND temperature? certainly will - and any electronics will not appreciate being in that environment for very long. electronics / processors tend to want to shut down after around 80c, and sensors are delicate things. I doubt canon is going to run a camera into the 100's. in that weather, the internals of the camera are literally baking.

all that means you have a very small delta T once you've been in the sun with the camera for a long time.
 
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#46
I personaly dont think that the R5 II will have any vents. If there is a cooling grip, than my guess is, that it will cool the camera through some metal heatpipe, which may connect at the bottom of the camera with some copper plate.

I think the R5 will still be focused on photographers. And I don\'t think additional space for a vent is very popular among photographers.
I can see cooling vents again on the R5C, maybe with a grip for additional cooling. But I can not realy see it for a photography centered camera.

Just my prediction. =)
 
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#48
peters said:
I personaly dont think that the R5 II will have any vents. If there is a cooling grip, than my guess is, that it will cool the camera through some metal heatpipe, which may connect at the bottom of the camera with some copper plate.

I think the R5 will still be focused on photographers. And I don\'t think additional space for a vent is very popular among photographers.
I can see cooling vents again on the R5C, maybe with a grip for additional cooling. But I can not realy see it for a photography centered camera.

Just my prediction. =)
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Well... I have seen the camera. I have reported on the vents.

So let's wager.

$299 USD to you if I lose.

An R100 to Richard if I win.

Someone here would provide escrow... Popcorn ready
 
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#50
This whole “Active Cooling Grip for the Canon R5II” points to the fact that the R5II will most likely be a 'crippled camera without the cooling grip' That is - To realize the full potential of the camera, it will need the active cooling grip.
So, I am guessing that is another at least $400 - $500 extra investment into the system.

Generally, people prefer simpler cameras with fewer parts. If given an option, they would choose a camera without a grip.

What direction is Canon taking here? Worth debating.
 
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#51
vishaltpt said:
This whole “Active Cooling Grip for the Canon R5II” points to the fact that the R5II will most likely be a 'crippled camera without the cooling grip' That is - To realize the full potential of the camera, it will need the active cooling grip.
So, I am guessing that is another at least $400 - $500 extra investment into the system.

Generally, people prefer simpler cameras with fewer parts. If given an option, they would choose a camera without a grip.

What direction is Canon taking here? Worth debating.
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Well.. every camera Canon has ever released is apparently "crippled".... So at least embrace the consistency.

Hopefully it can at least handle LED lighting better than the latest $6500 Sony or reliably autofocus better than the $5000 Nikon.

We'll see though...
 
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#52
vishaltpt said:
This whole “Active Cooling Grip for the Canon R5II” points to the fact that the R5II will most likely be a 'crippled camera without the cooling grip' That is - To realize the full potential of the camera, it will need the active cooling grip.
So, I am guessing that is another at least $400 - $500 extra investment into the system.

Generally, people prefer simpler cameras with fewer parts. If given an option, they would choose a camera without a grip.

What direction is Canon taking here? Worth debating.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how you took that leap, but, why would it be a crippled camera?

no camera is perfect, but using a grip to augment what should be for most photographers, an optional requirement - is a good way to compromise.

it's better to have the ability to increase the functionality (bitrate, recording length, etc) by providing a grip than limit the camera's overall potential.
 
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#53
The concern is - Canon is trying to Cram two cameras into one body i.e R5 + R5C = R5II

That can be a problem, as it may not excel in either. It will be a bulky camera system.

As a Canon R5C user - IMHO - Canon should stick to R5 and R5C as 2 separate lines.
One a photo camera , the other a photo + Cinema Camera.
 
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#54
Richard CR said:
in 37c direct sunlight with the same sensor sampling? you sure? the cameras you mentioned are actively cooled AND smaller sensors - so which ones have you tried in the same environment?

I can certainly suggest reading a sony manual about burn warnings sometime - all cameras overheat, especially in significantly warm environments unless they have active cooling.

the temperature doesn't matter much but direct sun AND temperature? certainly will - and any electronics will not appreciate being in that environment for very long. electronics / processors tend to want to shut down after around 80c, and sensors are delicate things. I doubt canon is going to run a camera into the 100's. in that weather, the internals of the camera are literally baking.

all that means you have a very small delta T once you've been in the sun with the camera for a long time.
Click to expand...
So let me understand what you are trying to say here... that the ppl live in countries that are hot during summer must not use their cameras with no fan at direct sunlight? If it was an option we wouldn't. Don't try to be sarcastic here! My partner uses a7siii and can record 4k in direct sunlight much more that an hour! I didn't start this conversation to talk about the other manufacturers but to point criticism to Canon that it doesn't provide efficient cooling like the competition.. period! I have my C70 which is a workhorse aling my BM 6k pro but in many situations I need a small ff camera that doesn't overheat so easy as the R5/R6 did since their release and especially in 1080p which is totally unheard! Now let's be silent and see what is coming in a few weeks and then we can talk!
 
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#55
vishaltpt said:
This whole “Active Cooling Grip for the Canon R5II” points to the fact that the R5II will most likely be a 'crippled camera without the cooling grip' That is - To realize the full potential of the camera, it will need the active cooling grip.
So, I am guessing that is another at least $400 - $500 extra investment into the system.

Generally, people prefer simpler cameras with fewer parts. If given an option, they would choose a camera without a grip.

What direction is Canon taking here? Worth debating.
Click to expand...
My thoughts also... I hope we are both wrong!
 
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#56
vishaltpt said:
The concern is - Canon is trying to Cram two cameras into one body i.e R5 + R5C = R5II

That can be a problem, as it may not excel in either. It will be a bulky camera system.

As a Canon R5C user - IMHO - Canon should stick to R5 and R5C as 2 separate lines.
One a photo camera , the other a photo + Cinema Camera.
Click to expand...

What's with the bold? I know it's an option, but it only detracts from whatever point you're trying to make up.

The R5 and the R5C aren't two separate product lines. The R5C is an R5 with a fan and a separate piece of software..If anything, thats worse than combining the two into a single line and the consumer bring able to choose whether or not they care about the fan.

Your gimbal will be fine, the weight difference will be subtle, you may just need to spend 5 minutes on a rebalance. Which is no different than adding a new lens.

If you're into video, then the fan will probably be less than the price difference between the R5 and R5C (based on launch prices). The software will also be more aligned between photo, video, balanced features and ergonomics.

If you want a cinema camera, then buy a cinema camera.

How many R5 C owners are doing serious photo work? I'm sure they exist....but it's a tiny percentage. Nevermind that the photography ergonomics with an R5 C are...... less than stellar.

I'm all for an R5 C follow-up, the small form factor is great, but it needs to be an actual cinema camera first... And that would be way better than the current camera for a majority of the people that own an R5 C.

Actually differentiate the models, not the patchwork that happened with the current generation. Which is a testament to Canon... They somehow made two compelling products doing so.
 
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#57
mariosk1gr said:
So let me understand what you are trying to say here... that the ppl live in countries that are hot during summer must not use their cameras with no fan at direct sunlight? If it was an option we wouldn't. Don't try to be sarcastic here! My partner uses a7siii and can record 4k in direct sunlight much more that an hour! I didn't start this conversation to talk about the other manufacturers but to point criticism to Canon that it doesn't provide efficient cooling like the competition.. period! I have my C70 which is a workhorse aling my BM 6k pro but in many situations I need a small ff camera that doesn't overheat so easy as the R5/R6 did since their release and especially in 1080p which is totally unheard! Now let's be silent and see what is coming in a few weeks and then we can talk!
Click to expand...

The A7SIII is a video camera first, and really stills photography camera second, and they did a ton of work on that camera so it doesn't overheat as much

you know.. the same sort of work we are expecting out of canon on this release. if anything canon should go a step well beyond what Sony could do with the A7S III.
 
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#58
Canon Rumors Guy said:
How many R5 C owners are doing serious photo work? I'm sure they exist....but it's a tiny percentage. Nevermind that the photography ergonomics with an R5 C are...... less than stellar.

I'm all for an R5 C follow-up, the small form factor is great, but it needs to be an actual cinema camera first... And that would be way better than the current camera for a majority of the people that own an R5 C.
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Have you ever used a R5C camera ? I doubt
& BTW, What camera do "the guys who do serious photo work" actually use?? It would be interesting to know. ;):)
 
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#60
vishaltpt said:
Have you ever used a R5C camera ? I doubt
& BTW, What camera do "the guys who do serious photo work" actually use?? It would be interesting to know. ;):)
Click to expand...
If a future R5c II was identical to the R5 II but with the fan included and slightly thicker, then I'd prefer to get that R5c II instead. But if I have to give up "stills" features in order to get more "video" features in it then I'd pass (again) on the "c" version.

I'm not a video person, but I'd be interested in a cheap astro-setup if the cooling grip is shown to help enough. It won't be anywhere close to a dedicated sensor with active (peltier etc) cooling, but that's OK with me.
 
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