Canon sold almost half all cameras made in 2023
- Thread starter Richard CR
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The R100 with one lens kit is at #3 on the Amazon best seller list this week and the R100 with 2 lens kit is at #5. You may not like the R100, but it does sell in bigger numbers than you might imagine. Price matters. For comparison, the R50 with one lens is at #4.No comment
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Yes. But that's because people break down the kits. I suggest it's selling well because the lenses. People then use the R100 in their aquarium.
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Not sure this data shows your concern. DSLR's were 23% of all cameras in 2022, 15% in 2023 and trending toward 10% in 2024. At this rate DSLR's will be gone in 3 years. Backing out the DSLR sales and the market share isn't as tilted.
Nikon for example has 13% share of mirrorless which is unchanged from the previous year and they increased their sales by 19%. . They also purchased RED in the 2024 and finally released the Z6III bringing their new lineup down to the more affordable $2,500 range. They'll probably pick up market share in 2024.
Fuji from a profit perspective it doing extremely well. The X100Vi is one of the hottest selling cameras. As was the X100V before it. They've clearlly zoned in on a niche that is extremely profitable. As DSLR's phase out their share will increase as wll.
Panasonic and OM are the questionable ones.
What these numbers don't show are companies like DJI. For example DJI makes the OSMO Pocket 3 which competes with Sony's ZV-E10 one of their best sellers. But the OSMO pocket 3 technically isn't a mirrorless and is not one of the CIPA participating members. DJI sells a ton of cameras and has been slowly moving up the food chain.
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Yes, Canon's dominance is mitigated somewhat if you ignore part of the current market. But the trend suggests the tilt in the overall market will stay. As DSLR sales have dropped steadily from 90% of ILCs to the 15%, Canon's ILC market share has not changed. Obviously, that means that as Canon sells fewer DSLRs, they are selling correspondingly more MILCs. Of course there's no guarantee that trend that has held true for the past decade will continue, but it seems very likely that it will.
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Canon is roughly 40% of the ILC market but was 50% over the overall market. Being 85% of the DSLR market is what pushed their overall market share up to 50%. Once the DSLR market is gone their overall market share will probably be in the low 40% range.
In the Technos Sytems Research data cited here Canon used to be above 49% and is now at 46.5%. And were talking about 2023.
So in 2024 I would imagine Nikon would pick up market share finally bringing the updated lineup down to the Z6III at $2500 in June 2024. So the article suggesting that they are going full on boutique couldn't be further from what's happening. And again they also bought RED. RED is not a participating member of CIPA. But now that RED cameras are technically Nikon will they get included? If so that would add to market share.
And again there is DJI. They dominate drones, effectively squashed GoPro in the action cam market, and have now moved up to the digital camera market. So not only do their numbers NOT show up in the market share but they also own Hasseblad which doesn't show up either.
Canon folks may not follow it but we now have Chinese lenses that are getting good. Solid construction metal bodies, with adequate sharpness, good autofocus and advanced features like apurture dials. And these lenses not only cost less than the first party lenses but they are less than the Sigmas and Tamrons.
So the whole market share argument is how well these Japanese companies are doing against other Japanese Companies. But the Chinese are coming for them.
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Humorous, but not logical. Why would you buy an R100 kit just for an 18-45 when you can get that lens for $80 on eBay? BTW, my flip phone doesn't have a touch screen either, and it works just fine
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Please review the actual data before commenting further, it's hard to have an intelligent conversation when one person is using their own personal version of the facts.
Canon is not roughly 40% of the ILC market, in 2023 they sold 2.88 million ILCs of the approximately 6 million ILCs overall, meaning a 48% ILC market share.
Canon's overall camera market share has been as high as 48% in the Techno Systems data, and over the last 10 years their camera market share has ranged from 45-48%, remaining remarkably stable even as DSLRs went from 77% of the market a decade ago to 19% of the market last year. But now you think that as that last 19% comprising DSLRs continues to fall, somehow Canon will lose 6-8% of their market share. Extrapolation is apparently not your strong suit.
You imagine, that's good. The average unit price of a MILC sold in 2023 was $840, so a camera selling for $2500 is not going to have a major impact on market share anywhere except in your imagination.
The whole market share argument is about camera bodies, since those are the data being discussed. But now you're talking about Chinese lenses. Thanks for playing.
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Again, that is WITH DSLR's. They are 48% with DSLR's and 41% without.
They were at 49.1% in 2018 which is higher than 48%. While they have bounced around year to year the overall trend is downard. 49.1% in 2018, 47.6% in 2020 and now 46.5% in 2023.
The $2500 price segment is very popular and one of the better sellers for most of the big three (R6II, A7IV and now Z6III). Nikon had fallen behind especially in autofocus. The Z8/Z9 were both very popular cameras bringing them back in competition with Canon/Sony. However these caneras in the $4k+ range don't sell in as large a volume as the $2500 and below.
And this doesn't address RED. The cameras Red sold in 2023 weren't included in these market share numbers. Now that they are Nikon cameras how would NIkon's share not increase? Whether or not its capturesd in CIPA data doesn't change that those cameras are sold and being used by real people. Nikon's revenue will obviously reflect this.
Also look at the compact digital sales. Sony sells 470K, Canon sells 460K and Nikon only sells 50k. These cameras are what pull the average unit price down. Nikon doesn't sell much of them so yes, the Z6III selling well should impact Nikons numbers. An extra 50k units would push their market share up 1%.
The point was to show that the gap between the Japanese and Chinese manufacturers have decreased. As they continue to make better and better glass at cheaper prices this will at some point affect the bodies. And it seems inevitable that at some point the Chinese move into direct competition and make caemra bodies themselves.
Case in point DJI. We now have a Chinse manufacturere making digital cameras in direct competiton with the Japanese. The Osmo Pocket 3 competes directly with the Sony ZV-E10, Canon V10 and Canon already has plans for a gimbal camera which is essentially the same product. The Hasseblad 100 MP camera competes directly with the Fuji camera but Hasseblad numbers aren't in the market share because they are owned by DJI.
Another point is look at the sales of compact digital cameras. This segment was down in 2023 to 22% of the market from 26% of the market in 2023. Sony led this segment but Fuji was the only company where sales didn't go down. This segment is actually on pace to INCREASE in 2024. Now I know you're against me using my imagination but it would appear likely that the increase is due in part to the popularity of the 100VI.
But to be clear, this isn't doom and gloom on Canon market share. I think its obvious that they'll stay in the lead but the landscape is changing.
For example back to your average price of ILC. My understanding is that price per ILC sold in 2012 was 37,500 Yen and in 2023 was 106,000 yen. I think this highlights where the market is headed. DSLR's will be gone and the average mirrorless will continue to move up in price to differntiate as smartphones get more capable. It will be less about selling tons of cameras and controlling a large market share and more about maximizing margins on a boutique product.
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And yet, every time I look at Amazon USA best sellers in mirrorless, There is the R100 higher than any other Canon. Last time I checked it was #1, today it is #2 behind the Sony ZV-E10. Apparently, despite the gear-head denouncements, it is hitting the mark pretty well.
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The only images you have posted are charts and graphs pillaged from annual reports. Maybe you could take some pictures with whatever camera you have (even if it is only a phone). That would be far more interesting than endless arguments about market share and business plans (Have you ever actually run a business? It involves far more than charts and graphs.).
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What you stated was, "Canon is roughly 40% of the ILC market." So in your mind, a DSLR is not an interchangeable lens camera. Always amusing when people make up their own definitions for established terms, then emphasize their FOOLISHNESS with ALL CAPS. For the record, ILCs comprise DSLRs (digital single lens reflex) and MILCs (mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras). Again, it's hard to have an intelligent discussion with someone who lacks an understanding of the basic, relevant terms.
Thanks for the correction. Funny how you omitted 2021 from your list when Canon was at 45.8% that year, which wrecks your 'overall trend'.
The price I listed was the average 2023 unit price of a mirrorless camera (to reiterate, try to learn the basics of what is being discussed). The average price of a DSLR sold in 2023 was $340, and the average price of an ILC was $750.
Yes, on average MILCs cost more than DSLRs. What the average price of MILCs means is the the unit sales numbers are being driven by APS-C models. Full frame models like the Z6 and R6 don't move the needle significantly.
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You are literally in a thread about market share complaining about discussing market share.
neuroanatomist also has a camera, but post THOUSANDS more post about Canon market share of which you have no issue. I get it, ad hominen attacks agaist viewpoints you don't like.
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@Dragon's point is that I also have hundreds of posts in the Image & Video Galleries section of the forum. I also contribute factually correct information. You contribute nothing to the former, and frequently fail at the latter.
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Again I'm differentiating the ILC market as with and without DSLR because it look pretty obvoice that in a few years the ILC will have almost no DLSR's anymore.
Yes that how trend lines work. Numbers can go up or down in an individual year but where is the overall trend going? 45.8% is still less than 49.1%. The overall trend is downward.
The same thing for Sony gives you:
We're saying the SAME THING. The lower end DSLR's are what is bringing down the average price of ILC's. Nikon doesn't sell many DSLR's any more. If you removed the DSLR sales from the ILC sales then the average price the remaining ILC market (mirrorless) would be higher.
I'm talking about NIKON's sales. Nikon doesn't have a large apsc lineup. Again if Nikon were just to sell 50K more cameras that would increase their market share of mirroless cameras by 1%. I AGREE that in terms market share they will get more movement if/when they update the Z50 and Z30 as they will likely sell more of those units. But again by the same logic they are clearly going to sell more Z6III at $2500 then they sold Z9's at $5500.
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These are your opinions not facts. I get it that your hubris makes you think that everyone who disagrees with you is wrong.
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Can you not simply admit that you were wrong? You stated that Canon had 40% of the ILC market in 2023, that is false. Period. Full stop. If you mean they had around 40% of the MILC market, you should have said so. Instead you double and triple down on your incorrect statement.
Go back a couple more years.
It would also be helpful to plot your data sets on the same axes. Your Y axis for Canon covers a 7% range, your Y axis for Sony covers a 35% range. Plot the Canon data on the Sony scale then look at the slope of the line.
You're engaging in classic data manipulation in addition to making outright false statements. Pathetic.
I clearly differentiate my opinions from facts. If I make incorrect statements (as I did above regarding the maximum % of Canon's market share), I acknowledge them and thank the person who corrected me (as I did above, to you). It's unfortunate that you cannot do the same, but sadly it's not at all surprising.
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Canon is NOT 40% of the ILC market. That is NOT a correct statement.
Can you admit thar prior to that I was trying to extrapolate where I THINK the ILC market would be once DSLR's are no longer around?
Below are the numbers I used. I simply looked up the past 6 year, typed it in excel. clicked create chart and then create trendline. You can adjust as you see fit.
2018 | 49.10% |
2019 | 45.40% |
2020 | 47.90% |
2021 | 45.80% |
2022 | 46.50% |
2023 | 46.50% |
Below is the date for Sony, again simply looked up the Techno Systems Research reports and dropped them into excel.
2018 | 13.30% |
2019 | 20.20% |
2020 | 22.10% |
2021 | 27.00% |
2022 | 26.10% |
2023 | 27.90% |
I've admitted to being wrong to you in the past. You've never admitted being wrong EVER and have constantly referred to me and others as stupid, idiots, etc.
Do you have conversations with people in real life? You are taking this too seriously. I get it that you want Canon to be the best. But if you are debating whos the best NFL team with your buddy and you misquote a stat they don't pretend like you are some evil devious person. Is Canon's market share that important to you?
This isn't a 100% me against Canon thing. I think they market is shifting and it will greatly affect all of them. This Canon forum just happens to be one of the more active places where people discuss numbers. If I told you a year ago that Canon's market share would stay flat and Sony's would increase you'd get hyperbolic and complain. And yet that is exactly what happened. If Canon's market share goes up in 2024 I'll simply agree they did better than I though and start discussing the where the next year is headed.
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You didn't answer my question re whether you have actually run a business or just like playing with charts and offering opinions. Neuro does not sugar coat his responses, but he is rarely wrong and he specializes in correcting BS from Sony trolls. Sony, as a company, has changed dramatically. I knew Akio Morita personally, and he ran a class operation. Since Sony became first and foremost, part of the Hollywood scene, they have adopted many of the ethics of that environment. Not a welcome change. Personally, I would rather take pictures and see pictures taken by others with talent. Unfortunately, you have contributed exactly nothing on that front.
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