Early Reports: The EOS R1 AF is Better than Expected

#21
Elgogo said:
do you also have the R5ii ?? if so, would love to hear your thoughts once you test it out
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I have a r5m2. I had hoped to use it for my running sports photography but the buffer is WAY too small to be useful for that unless I dial down the FPS and shoot only jpg to both cards. Outside of that, I cannot tell any meaningful difference between that and my R5 (original) beyond the ability to use eye focus to target the specific item I want to focus on in a scene. If you are waiting to buy the M2, I would probably tell you to get the R5 at a discount and save money for glass.
 
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#22
john1970 said:
Have fun. You might find the AF modes on the R1 much simpler than the 1Dx series. The AF Cases no longer exists. There are only an Auto mode and a Manual mode where you can adjust the Tracking sensitivity and Accel./decel. tracking.
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FFS I really hate that on the R5m2, the modes selection are great and really hate losing them. The more I hear, the less I like the R1. I never cancelled my preorder because my son got a running scholarship at a university which will save me more than 100k and thought I can now justify the R1 since I shoot those XC and track events.
 
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#23
OldDudePhotog said:
FFS I really hate that on the R5m2, the modes selection are great and really hate losing them. The more I hear, the less I like the R1. I never cancelled my preorder because my son got a running scholarship at a university which will save me more than 100k and thought I can now justify the R1 since I shoot those XC and track events.
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I thought it was an odd departure from the past as well. I also miss spot metering being linked to the AF point as well. Regardless, I still purchased a R1 for wildlife photography because I rarely make prints larger than 8x10 and 24 MP is more than enough for that size.
 
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#25
john1970 said:
I thought it was an odd departure from the past as well. I also miss spot metering being linked to the AF point as well. Regardless, I still purchased a R1 for wildlife photography because I rarely make prints larger than 8x10 and 24 MP is more than enough for that size.
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There is this new mode where the subject detected and focused will be metered. I actually think this is better option than spot metering linked to an autofocus point since this will in effect now track a subject and meter it directly.
 

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#26
Dsyst said:
There is this new mode where the subject detected and focused will be metered. I actually think this is better option than spot metering linked to an autofocus point since this will in effect now track a subject and meter it directly.
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I am aware of this mode and have it enabled. However, under some circumstances I still focus the old fashioned way by moving the point to the location I want to focus on and under these circumstances Spot Metering linked to AF point would be useful. With that said, I do understand why this new mode exists.
 
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#27
john1970 said:
I am aware of this mode and have it enabled. However, under some circumstances I still focus the old fashioned way by moving the point to the location I want to focus on and under these circumstances Spot Metering linked to AF point would be useful. With that said, I do understand why this new mode exists.
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I agree with john1970 -- linking metering to the AF point was a game-changer on the 1DX3. This option virtually guaranteed perfectly exposed faces with the most flattering skin tones (especially when the background and the subject's outfit was too bright or dark). I was sad to lose it on the R3 and assumed it was one of those small items (like 2 CF card slots) that Canon would only put on their flagship camera body. I extensively tested the "Detect Priority AE while AF" and it's better than strait Evaluative metering, but no where near as accurate as metering at the AF point. The R1 shows us the center circle in the viewfinder where spot metering is reading the light, and only occasionally is my AF point smack in the middle. I wonder if a firmware update could add this fabulous feature?
 
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#28
MGN said:
I agree with john1970 -- linking metering to the AF point was a game-changer on the 1DX3. This option virtually guaranteed perfectly exposed faces with the most flattering skin tones (especially when the background and the subject's outfit was too bright or dark). I was sad to lose it on the R3 and assumed it was one of those small items (like 2 CF card slots) that Canon would only put on their flagship camera body. I extensively tested the "Detect Priority AE while AF" and it's better than strait Evaluative metering, but no where near as accurate as metering at the AF point. The R1 shows us the center circle in the viewfinder where spot metering is reading the light, and only occasionally is my AF point smack in the middle. I wonder if a firmware update could add this fabulous feature?
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I never had the 1DX3, but have been waiting for this feature for a long time. When I saw the Detect Priority AE while AF feature on the R5 II, I thought it would solve all problems and was very excited. Unfortunately it doesn't do the trick. I'd like to quickly switch from a cormorant to an egrete with Auto ISO without having to mess with exposure compensation and/or manually overriding the ISO. Not there yet. Hopefully it will get there.
 
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#29
I was also a big fan of AF point-linked spot metering on my 1D X, and hoped/presumed it would be included on the R1. I don't see any technical reason why any Canon MILC can't link one of the several hundred/thousand metering zones to the AF point. I would get keeping it a 1-series feature. Maybe there's a technical reason that's beyond me, but if not it's a real d!ck move from Canon, IMO.
 
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#31
I am not coming from a 1Dx, so perhaps it has changed, but I was looking forward to metering being attached to the AF point and have tested it and it is working.

Edit: this looks to be the same information dsyst included above. As an FYI, with single point AF selected, the exposure is changing based on the location of the AF point. Perhaps this was different than before, but it is exactly what I expected.
 

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#32
docsmith said:
I am not coming from a 1Dx, so perhaps it has changed, but I was looking forward to metering being attached to the AF point and have tested it and it is working.

Edit: this looks to be the same information dsyst included above. As an FYI, with single point AF selected, the exposure is changing based on the location of the AF point. Perhaps this was different than before, but it is exactly what I expected.
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It’s metering based on the subject detected by the AF system – people, animals, vehicles. I haven’t tested it yet, but presumably if the subject is a flower, a lamp, part of a building, etc., then it defaults to regular evaluative metering. That still weights toward the AF point, but it takes the scene into account. It’s not the same as spot metering.
 
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#33
neuroanatomist said:
It’s metering based on the subject detected by the AF system – people, animals, vehicles. I haven’t tested it yet, but presumably if the subject is a flower, a lamp, part of a building, etc., then it defaults to regular evaluative metering. That still weights toward the AF point, but it takes the scene into account. It’s not the same as spot metering.
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I can post later, but I’ve taken pics of the same scene where the metering changed several stops just based on where I focused. It appeared to be the same when I was photographing birds moving in and out of shadows earlier today.

So perhaps this is not exactly spot metering, I am seeing metering change depending on the brightness of where the AF point has focused. As an example I just checked and focusing on a light in center frame it metered ISO 800 (manual mode-Auto ISO), I moved the AF point into the shadows keeping the light in center frame and it was ISO 8000 and the images I took went from dark in shadows to exposed in the shadows.

I’ll test more tomorrow.
 
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#34
docsmith said:
So perhaps this is not exactly spot metering, I am seeing metering change depending on the brightness of where the AF point has focused. As an example I just checked and focusing on a light in center frame it metered ISO 800 (manual mode-Auto ISO), I moved the AF point into the shadows keeping the light in center frame and it was ISO 8000 and the images I took went from dark in shadows to exposed in the shadows.

I’ll test more tomorrow.
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If you don't mind, try the same thing without the setting enabled – I bet you see the same thing. Vanilla evaluative metering works like that, i.e. you can move the AF point from a bright area to the shadows in the same scene and see an exposure difference of several stops. Just did that with my R8 and 28/2.8 at 1/60 s, f/2.8, Auto ISO, AF point on a light it metered ISO 125, AF point in the shadows without moving the camera gave ISO 2000.

Based on what the manual page you posted says, the setting only applies with a subject that is automatically detected by the camera (it's right in the name of the setting – AE for Priority Subjects, not AE at the AF point). The note on the page says if you have automatic subject detection turned off, it's just regular evaluative metering. The birds moving in and out of shadows you mentioned would be a case where it would work.
 
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#35
Fair enough. And I am seeing what you describe.

To make this faster for others that want to test, Shoot Tab 2 at the bottom, "Detect priority while AF"

Just played with it more:
  • Exposure: Evaluative Mode; Detect Priority: On. Single AF Point. M mode, fixed shutter speed/aperture/AutoISO. Behaves as I described above. I move the AF point around a scene with a bright light is ISO 640, move the AF point around darker regions, the ISO ~6400, all while holding the composition the same.
  • Turn Detect Priority to Off. This stops. You have to change composition to change ISO/exposure values. Exposure is based on the center of the frame.
  • Turn Detect Priority back On, but change to any Exposure mode to spot, center weighted, or partial, this stops. The "Detect Priority" option in the Menu is grayed out and changed to "off".
The R5 in evaluative mode behaves similarly to the first bullet, but slightly less extreme than on the R1. Same settings, it was ISO 800 on the light, and ISO ~4000 corners.

It appears that "Detect priority" mode is more about being able to unlink Evaluative metering from the AF point.

So, spot metering can be linked to spot AF on the 1D series? If so, I am not outraged, as evaluative metering on the AF point is doing a pretty good job in my brief tests, but I would like to have that feature as well.
 
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#36
Yes, there is a choice in the menu on all of the 1DX cameras for metering during spot/1-point AF to link either to the center point of the viewfinder/image or to the AF point. That choice doesn't exist on any of the R series camera. I had so hoped that it would return on the R1.

In my testing, the "detect priority while AF" will evaluate the light on the Subject, which is better than evaluating light on the entire image but very different in many cases from evaluating the light on the AF point. Take for example a portrait with either a background bright or darker than the subject. The entire person will be metered. However, if the person is wearing all white or all black, the metering on the person (subject) is being averaged or evaluated. It's far more accurate in nailing skin tones for the metering to be on the subject's face than averaged over their entire body, since the color of clothing will skew the reading.

Using Spot metering is certainly an option, but that only meters on the R1 at the spot in the direct center of the viewfinder/image. Very rarely is my subject's face at the center point. I tested this extensively a few days ago using a darkened room in the background and an object lit up in the foreground. The object was exposed perfectly only when it was in the exact center of the frame. When off-set in any direction, the entire image was significantly overexposed because the metering point was on the center of the frame instead of on the object, as it would be when metering is linked to AF point instead of the center point.

Obviously, we can all use our photographic expertise to adjust the exposure in Manual mode or using exposure compensation, but it sure was nice to have spot-on accuracy when metering is linked to the AF point instead of the entire person. Im baffled why Canon didn't include this simple feature.
 
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#37
neuroanatomist said:
I was also a big fan of AF point-linked spot metering on my 1D X, and hoped/presumed it would be included on the R1. I don't see any technical reason why any Canon MILC can't link one of the several hundred/thousand metering zones to the AF point. I would get keeping it a 1-series feature. Maybe there's a technical reason that's beyond me, but if not it's a real d!ck move from Canon, IMO.
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Agreed!
 
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