Canon Launches New Cropping Guide for Select EOS Cameras for $120USD

Post #s 75-77 in this thread are quite informative, and sprinkled with personal experience and expertise. I learned some things by reading them. Posts such as these are why I peruse CR.

In the end, the marketplace will decide...as it should. As it always does.

I hope Canon's execs make wise decisions.

Del Paso said:

My wife owns a 18500 Euro Renault Clio equipped with heated seats (standard equipment). What BMW tried to introduce was just stupid. Heated seat cost a few $ more to produce...
If I'm not mistaken, subscription fees for BMW existed only for the US market.
By the way, as far as I know, no serious French or German dealership has ever charged a sales price higher than the official list price. Price gouging seems to be sometimes country-related (Canon UK, Porsche USA...)
And yes, heated seats are by no means an exotic, specialized feature, unlike the cropping offered by Canon. Winters exist almost everywhere, but cropping frames? Only a fraction of users will benefit from them.

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I've really enjoyed my cooling/ventilated seats in my previous lexus and now Telsa (front only). No idea why they aren't standard in every car. Everywhere has a summer.

From what I understand from the BMW debacle was that the hardware for the heating was in every seat already so the subscription was only to turn it on in SW. Maybe you could subscribe only for winter months.

Country (and EU?) based pricelists and standard included features for models are always defined locally. Price gouging is always an issue. The price will very rarely go down in local currency even if the exchange rate vary substanially as it would affect local second hand pricing. That didn't stop Telsa reducing local cost early this year in Australia which did miff a few people who recently bought them. My model went down AUD4k but I don't have an issue with it as I keep my cars for a long time.

HMC11 said:

If it were only as simple as that. In my experience, companies have rather clever ways of maximising their profit, which I have to say, is primarily their main focus. Take DXO as an example. They (finally) came up with a luminosity mask to help with editing, but that is only available as a feature if you purchase their filmpack solfware at US$79 (non-upgrade option).

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There are lots of plugins for photoshop from 3rd parties or "presets" for LR etc and no one has an issue with it. All one-time purchases though major new releases can mean re-purchase. Phone apps can be one-time or subscription and no one seems to arc up too much over the subscription ones.
Tesla has a premium connectivity subscription and you can choose to subscribe or not.

HMC11 said:

As an aside, privatisation of public utilities was largely cheered on by the population at the start, as it was assumed that in private hands, the cost will be driven down because the private sector is supposedly more efficient, and that this efficiency gain will translate into benefits for consumers. The actual customer experience in the longer term, as they say, is history.

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Very common problem is that privatised companies can be more efficient but need to make more profit so gouging can take place for what are mostly monopolies. Sweetheart deals are hidden behind the "commercial in confidence" agreements or simply stuff that the government didn't account for.
This gives a one time capital injection but the problems are kicked down the road to a subsequent government to sort out.

neuroanatomist said:

Yes, that’s an example. Is BMW still doing that? What other features does BMW charge a subscription to activate? Have most car makers followed suit?

As above, compare the number of paid firmware updates for cameras to the total number of firmware updates. As far as I can tell, it’s two paid optional firmware updates from Canon, one from Sony and one from Panasonic, and none from Nikon. Total. Canon’s two were separated by four years. And dozens of free firmware updates from each of the manufacturers.

Are you honestly worried that paid firmware updates will become the norm? I think anyone who believes that is likely should take off their tinfoil hat.

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One, we are on the same side of this issue. I'm not sure which ”you" you are referring to. I'm not offended, just clarifying.

Two, I imperfectly understand the other side's position and motives and was explaining them to a fellow member.

Three, the example did happen (which fuels other people's concerns) but it's an exception and not the rule (which is why I'm not worried about it) However, a big reason the car industry is slow rolling subscription services is because BMW faced backlash and there are memes about it.

Four, video games makers are finding every way to milk there customers. Different industry, but that leads us to...

Five, product-as-service is going to creep into every industry until it is explicitly outlawed.

Conclusion, our fellows who are crucifying Canon are clearly mistaken but they have a legit reason to be concerned. It just doesn't apply here.

Bonus fact, John Deere faced a smackdown from SCOTUS about a year ago, iirc, for stuff somewhat in the product as service field. Sorry, I don't know all the details but it is yet another example how this is creeping into society.

But Canon is not doing anything wrong on this issue.

Cheers

Seeker said:

Five, product-as-service is going to creep into every industry until it is explicitly outlawed.

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It isn't going to be outlawed as many customers actually want SaaS (SW, IaaS, PaaS, etc) or EaaS (equipment). AWS/google cloud/Azure etc servers are all about subscription avoiding managing capex cycles, varying load capacity etc. Yes, someone needs to buy/maintain the cloud but the downtime is less than on-prem hardware. When cloud does go down then it is big news though. Major corporations can negotiate SLAs with penalties but little companies can't.

I work with our product group on orchestrators for virtual network functions (VNF) in the telco market (WAN accelerations, routers, firewalls, etc). Bleeding edge stuff but makes so much more financial sense ie less hardware to support/maintain and OEMs focusing on what their core IP is rather than managing hardware around the world.

Some customers want us to resell them hardware but most prefer a managed service for xx years ie capex vs opex. Even Microsoft licensing makes sense to subscribe rather than buying perpetual licenses that don't need to be tracked when people leave the company or change PCs etc.

At a personal level, LR/PS is a bargain on a monthly subscription from Adobe. For all the nay sayers, Adobe haven't significantly jacked up the prices (outside of exchange rate changes) and definitely cheaper than previous perpetual licenses.

Even my phone is paid off by the month. No difference in price over 3 years vs upfront cost so a bargain vs CPI and leasing costs that the telco has to fund. Cheaper for them to reduce churn by offering this "service" than force users to buy upfront and switch when they like.

I have enjoyed this thread, and because of it (and some searching) I've learned some things.

We own a Hyundai Sonata (a sedan). One of the best cars we've owned...managed (so far) to avoid the engine problems plaguing Hyundais as well as the (at least in the USA) theft problems that the lower-end Hyundais suffered from because Hyundai went cheap on the key fob etc.

LOTS of bad PR (and rightly so) for Hyundai on these two fronts...as well as the fact that, for many recent Hyundais, the more-or-less Internet of Things Hyundai feature called 'Bluelink' was free for three years after date of purchase, but then went subscription only for features like remote start etc.

We chose not to pay for Bluelink and after the free period let the feature lapse.

But the whole thing has been kind of a mess for Hyundai, in terms of it 'just working'. And Hyundai boards are chock-full of complaints.

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More Hyundai Bluelink stuff:

From

https://www.reddit.com/r/Hyundai/comments/19aqvp9/is_bluelink_subscription_worth_it

If you bought a new 2023, the service should have all 3 packages (Connected Care, Remote, & Guidance) free on "trial" for 3 years. You won't have to worry about paying for it until 2026/27. You don't even have to enter a credit card to activate it on the MyHyundai website. Just login, goto Bluelink Subscriptions and enroll to activate the trial. If you need assistance, call Blue Link Customer Care (855) 225-8354 and an agent will walk you through all the setup and activation. That's what they're there for. Don't bother with the dealership, they know practically nothing compared to the dedicated BlueLink customer care agents. The dealer doesn't have access to the back end of the BlueLink system, and usually can't troubleshoot squat. The biggest hurdle you may run into is change if ownership. If the dealer is on the ball, they'll get that done with BlueLink right away. If not, you'll need to submit docs to BlueLink so they can clear the dealership's name off the VIN, so that you can add the vehicle to your MyHyundai profile. Takes a day if the dealer does it, up to 3 business days if you do it.

A couple things to remember when 2026/27 rolls around and you have to actually pay for it: you HAVE to have the Connected Care package for the Remote and/or Guidance packages to work. Connected Care holds the telematics that allow the app to communicate all of the remote functions to the vehicle. Also, when it's time to start paying for the service, you'll want to call BlueLink Customer Care and ask an agent for a promo code before you enroll in paid services. They usually need to activate the code on the back end for you, then you can enter it in the proper field on your end when enrolling on the website. There are different codes for yearly and monthly enrollment. Just tell the agent which subscriptions you want and ask for the biggest promo code available.

• You'll want to familiarize yourself with a few things to get more out of your Bluelink, without having to call and sit on hold for their customer service.
• Download Apple CarPlay (if you have an iPhone) or Android Auto (for Android OS). You can activate these in your vehicle's display unit under SETUP > DEVICE CONNECTIONS > ENABLE... and follow the setup instructions on the display. It will make calling, texting, and using navigation in vehicle a lot easier.
• Get used to placing your cell phone on the wireless charging pad. If your phone doesn't seem to charge on the pad, make sure your NFC connection is on in your phone connection settings, and try rotating the phone on the pad. Different manufacturers place the NFC hardware in different places within the phone. You may have to play with it, or worse case scenario, take your phone's case off to get it to charge. If you have to take your phone's case off, it's not Hyundai's fault. The manufacturer who built your phone fit it with weak NFC hardware.
• Learn how to HARD RESET your display unit. "Have you tried turning it off and back on again??", with this you can say yes. Find the pinhole in the plastic around the display screen (usually near one of the audio knobs). Take a ball point pen or a paper clip and press it in the hole for 3 seconds, then release. The display unit will reboot, clearing any data that may be causing a connectivity issue.
• Learn how to do a SERVICE ACTIVATION... SETUP > BLUELINK SETTINGS > SERVICE ACTIVATION/ACTIVATE BLUELINK/RECONFIGURE (depending on your vehicle's particular display unit it will show one of these options). Do this after a HARD RESET to make sure your vehicle's display unit is reaching out to the Bluelink network for fresh data. The message you're looking for on the display is ENROLLMENT SUCCESSFUL. Then log into the mobile app and try your remote services again.
• If the mobile app is acting up, log out of it, clear the app's data/cache, then log back in. In the case for iPhones, I think an uninstall/reinstall is easier. (do the same with your browser if the MyHyundai website is acting up or timing out)
• Remember that Bluelink primarily uses Verizon's 4G LTE cellular network for communication. If you're in an area where you can't get a good Verizon signal, you likely won't get great Bluelink connectivity.
• And finally... All the doors, trunk and hood must be fully closed, and the vehicle must be security locked using the key fob or the mobile app for the remote start to work. Also, if there's anything heavy in any of the seats, the vehicle will think there's an occupant inside and will not remote start. It's a safety thing. Oh, and if the vehicle has not been started in 4 or more days, a remote start won't work.

These are just some common things I've run into with Bluelink that would help with about 90% of technical troubleshooting and ease of use issues. Enjoy!

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I've pasted all of this here for a reason: I really do NOT want my workhorse Canon bodies, and features that I've grown to rely on... to demand/require/depend on internet access in order to function properly (same for cars!).

Of course, there are exceptions...and I need to learn more from here and here.

But when using a camera, I generally want to take pictures. When using a car, I generally want to get from A to B. And I want those things to work for those using them who are not as motivated as I am in order to get it right (kind of like our home theater set-up or Zoom/Canon/Windows home yoga studio).

But the real reason I'm posting?! For 2024 models (and apparently beyond?!), Hyundai has decided that Bluelink+ (and all of its features) will be 'free'. No more charges after three years of ownership...charges which apparently could exceed $300.00 USD per year.

So as posters in this very thread have noted, there are pushes and pulls when it comes to subscription models and extra features...and profits.

And the marketplace should be allowed the final word.

yankiefrankie said:

I don't understand the apprehension to "pay to upgrade" firmware. Unless the camera was sold with a PROMISE of a future feature via firmware, you got EXACTLY what you paid for as advertised. You are not OWED free features.

If paid firmware means that Canon is more likely to introduce features (because they can recoup development costs) I am SO FOR IT! It is a much than just not introducing features.

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I agree IF the firmware is something substantial and useful. But this is just dreck and $120 is laughable. I mean it's effectively 10% of the R7's retail price (on sale) and much more if you bough refurb or used. So any mud tossed at Canon for this particular upgrade is well deserved. Not to mention the R7 is already dated and the R7 II can't come fast enough and what do you bet, this "feature" will be in it. I'm just hoping it's not the marquee feature, but you never know with Canon these days.

ShowMeTheEagles said:

I agree IF the firmware is something substantial and useful. But this is just dreck and $120 is laughable. I mean it's effectively 10% of the R7's retail price (on sale) and much more if you bough refurb or used. So any mud tossed at Canon for this particular upgrade is well deserved. Not to mention the R7 is already dated and the R7 II can't come fast enough and what do you bet, this "feature" will be in it. I'm just hoping it's not the marquee feature, but you never know with Canon these days.

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‘Nuff said.

neuroanatomist said:

View attachment 221474

‘Nuff said.

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It's okay if you don't agree on something once in while too. No need for the constant insults.

Just to be clear I fully understand both the software side and business sides of this - I make and peddle SaaS software for B2B. Pricing is usually value based for the target customer and not how hard or costly something is to develop, but there is still usually some correlation. Thanks for the explanations of who this is for by the way they were insightful. But I and others do have differing opinions going from there.

Having to send in the camera is straight up the most idiotic solution thinkable to a technical/business problem. The business model itself is detestable and I think Canon deserves some criticism / commentary for it. I don't want to see more of this in the future. Even if they don't read it on here, they're not reading your defensive posts here either. This is basically politics and disagreement is inevitable.

"Don't like it don't buy it" is an absurd simplification of how markets work BTW and a cop out to healthy discussion. It's not how things work in real life - you as someone in health should know that.

vikingar said:

It's okay if you don't agree on something once in while too. No need for the constant insults.

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We can agree to disagree on that. If someone makes a ridiculous comment, I have no problem delivering the ridicule it deserves.

vikingar said:

Just to be clear I fully understand both the software side and business sides of this - I make and peddle SaaS software for B2B. Pricing is usually value based for the target customer and not how hard or costly something is to develop, but there is still usually some correlation.

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Okay. So what is the value for the target customer in this case? Do you know? Do you think Canon doesn’t? What does it tell you that they are charging $120 for the feature while Sony is charging $150 for it?

I suspect Canon knows the value of it to the target market and priced it accordingly. Absent evidence to the contrary, that would seem to be a reasonable inference. Most major companies know how to set prices.

vikingar said:

Thanks for the explanations of who this is for by the way they were insightful. But I and others do have differing opinions going from there.

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Differing opinions are fine. As I’ve said before, some people hold the opinion that the earth is flat. Choosing to post that opinion online is their choice.

vikingar said:

Having to send in the camera is straight up the most idiotic solution thinkable to a technical/business problem.

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I agree, but perhaps few customers will. Did you notice that Canon sells the R50, R10 and R7 with the firmware preinstalled (and included in the cost, of course)? Possibly many clients will simply write down the depreciation on current gear and buy new ones. Even more likely, ‘current gear’ for many clients are fully depreciated T# DSLRs and this feature will factor into equipment replacement cycles.

I wonder if Lensrentals will offer units with the firmware, as they did for the only other paid Canon firmware for stop motion animation.

vikingar said:

The business model itself is detestable and I think Canon deserves some criticism / commentary for it. I don't want to see more of this in the future. Even if they don't read it on here, they're not reading your defensive posts here either. This is basically politics and disagreement is inevitable.

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You’re free to detest it, but it will probably keep happening. I doubt the pace will increase, and since paid firmware is a minuscule fraction of the total number of firmware updates and has been targeted at specific audiences, and in this case just one geography, I still don’t get the angst it seems to be causing some people.

vikingar said:

"Don't like it don't buy it" is an absurd simplification of how markets work BTW and a cop out to healthy discussion. It's not how things work in real life - you as someone in health should know that.

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Nonsense. We’re not talking about a market like ‘healthcare’ or ‘groceries’ here. We’re talking about a niche segment of a small market. If EWR starts charging for firmware updates to their Doppler radar systems, would you be up in arms about that? (In fact, maybe they already do…and you have to pay them to send out a tech to install it. You should head off to tilt at that windmill on dopplerradarrumors.com!)

If Canon starts charging for firmware updates to make existing cameras compatible with new lenses, that would be something to bitch about. Or file a class action lawsuit over. Since that’s about as likely to happen as me ever owning a Doppler radar, I’m not going to worry about it. If the sky really does start falling, you and Chicken Little can say ‘we told you so’.

Edit: OMG, what if we could have known the sky was about to fall, but didn’t because Doppler radar owners detested paying for the firmware update that would have enabled falling sky detection? Boy, wouldn’t we all feel stupid. Silly? Absurd? No more so than the complaints about this firmware update on this thread.

David - Sydney said:

There are lots of plugins for photoshop from 3rd parties or "presets" for LR etc and no one has an issue with it. All one-time purchases though major new releases can mean re-purchase. Phone apps can be one-time or subscription and no one seems to arc up too much over the subscription ones.
Tesla has a premium connectivity subscription and you can choose to subscribe or not.

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Do you know of plugins for DXO Photolab? The ones available seem to turn Photolab into a bitmap editor to work with .tiff files, which are too large to store (usually over a 100M for an original CRAW of less than 10M). Otherwise, the options are to stump up for FilmPack, live with it, or hope for future version of Photolab to include luminosity mask.

HMC11 said:

Do you know of plugins for DXO Photolab? The ones available seem to turn Photolab into a bitmap editor to work with .tiff files, which are too large to store (usually over a 100M for an original CRAW of less than 10M). Otherwise, the options are to stump up for FilmPack, live with it, or hope for future version of Photolab to include luminosity mask.

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sorry, I don't use DXO. I thought that @neuroanatomist does but I could be mistaken.

HMC11 said:

Do you know of plugins for DXO Photolab? The ones available seem to turn Photolab into a bitmap editor to work with .tiff files, which are too large to store (usually over a 100M for an original CRAW of less than 10M). Otherwise, the options are to stump up for FilmPack, live with it, or hope for future version of Photolab to include luminosity mask.

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Sorry, I don’t use/know of any 3rd party plugins for DxO. For the few occasions when I use luminosity masks, I have used PS.

I will say that they incorporated some of the perspective correction tools from ViewPoint into PhotoLab, so I suppose there’s always hope. But hope is not a plan. Case in point, I was hoping for R1 support this month as they claimed, but now they’ve pushed it to Feb 2025.

neuroanatomist said:

Sorry, I don’t use/know of any 3rd party plugins for DxO. For the few occasions when I use luminosity masks, I have used PS.

I will say that they incorporated some of the perspective correction tools from ViewPoint into PhotoLab, so I suppose there’s always hope. But hope is not a plan. Case in point, I was hoping for R1 support this month as they claimed, but now they’ve pushed it to Feb 2025.

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Thank you for sharing. Appreciated please. I am using Affinity Photo to do some of the final touches but has to export as a .DNG or .TIFF file from DXO. A little painful, but it does not happen often.

It was -41c windchill a few days ago.

This is relevant.

I an a LONG time BMW guy. Sometime ago BMW said new owners must PAY to get the built-in seat heaters activated.

Needless to say I am a proud owner of a good looking Korean EV and will never consider a BMW again.

SIMILARLY, my relationship with Canon products has ended.

Camdoc said:

It was -41c windchill a few days ago.

This is relevant.

I an a LONG time BMW guy. Sometime ago BMW said new owners must PAY to get the built-in seat heaters activated.

Needless to say I am a proud owner of a good looking Korean EV and will never consider a BMW again.

SIMILARLY, my relationship with Canon products has ended.

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Over having to pay for cropping guide firmware that you require? Mmmmmkay.

Always fun when new members sign up just to tell us they are leaving Canon. Don’t let the door hit you in your seat-warmed butt on the way out.