Canon Officially Announces 4 new RF Lenses

#101
m4ndr4ke said:
AFAIK it's never been about the presence of fluorite elements, at least I never heard that.
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From Canon:

The evolution of Canon's white lenses

Canon's super telephoto lenses are instantly recognisable thanks to their iconic white coating, but why is it white? Discover the story behind Canon's white lens paint.
www.canon-europe.com www.canon-europe.com

“In 1976, white was first used for its SLR camera lenses, to reflect heat and minimise thermal expansion and contraction.

This is particularly valuable for lenses made with heat-sensitive materials such as fluorite.”

The white paint itself is the ‘heat shield’.

To your point about the PTFE zoom helicoids, presumably they’re in black lenses, too.

If there was a compelling engineering reason to paint this lens white, why would Canon offer it in black?
 
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#102
AlanF said:
Do you remember this from 2013, Neuro?
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I do, and I stand by it. A black object in the sun will heat faster, cool faster, and reach a higher equilibrium temperature than a similar white object.

But I also think it’s really more about marketing. There are white lenses without fluorite, and black lenses with fluorite including, for example, the CN-E 30-105mm T2.8 L that costs more than any great white except the legendary 1200/5.6.
 
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#103
neuroanatomist said:
The white paint itself is the ‘heat shield’.

To your point about the PTFE zoom helicoids, presumably they’re in black lenses, too.
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Of course, the parts are expected to be the same, hence the advantage of the white lens outdoors, it’ll be cooler.

neuroanatomist said:
If there was a compelling engineering reason to paint this lens white, why would Canon offer it in black?
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Studio sets. One more black lens is one less white distraction (or reflexion). After all, it’s still a video-oriented lens
 
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#104
m4ndr4ke said:
Studio sets. One more black lens is one less white distraction (or reflexion). After all, it’s still a video-oriented lens
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We were discussing thermal issues and materials used in lens construction. I stated, “If there was a compelling engineering reason…”

Is it your contention that the on-set distraction of a lens color is an engineering problem? If so, you have an unorthodox definition of the word ‘engineering’.
 
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#105
m4ndr4ke said:
Of course, the parts are expected to be the same, hence the advantage of the white lens outdoors, it’ll be cooler.
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Yes, but my point is how much does that matter? They put a warning on the VCM lenses for a pacemaker, but don’t warn against using black lenses outdoors. Do you think the >$20K black cine lenses with fluorite are only used indoors? Nikon lenses are all black. Doesn’t seem to be a problem.

But those white lenses do stand out at sporting events. And for a long time, they were synonymous with Canon. IMO, the ‘real’ story of Canon’s white paint is they’re a clever marketing tactic with a patina of technical rationale for it that’s exactly as thin as that white paint.
 
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#106
Great additions to the RF lineup! Especially the 24mm was looong overdue. A bit sad it's not f1.2, but one can hope that perhaps one day that comes along as well.

The 70-200 offerings don't really interest me. I already have the original and see very little reason to upgrade. Likewise with the 50 mil. I'd much rather keep my f1.2 for lowlight.
 
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#107
Does anyone know how the new RF 24 1.4 compares to the Sigma Art 24 1.4 optically? I have been using the sigma for landscapes and Milky Way and have been pretty happy with it, but it would be nice to have a native lens that is significantly lighter, especially considering the adapter. Coma would be a concern. Thanks!
 
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#109
IRB Kirk said:
Does anyone know how the new RF 24 1.4 compares to the Sigma Art 24 1.4 optically? I have been using the sigma for landscapes and Milky Way and have been pretty happy with it, but it would be nice to have a native lens that is significantly lighter, especially considering the adapter. Coma would be a concern. Thanks!
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you can't really compare MTF's between brands but a quick eyeballing seems to indicate it's better.

YMMV though.


mtf-24sigma.jpg

Again, you can't really directly compare - but since the MTF's are vastly different, it's safe to say that the 24L is a much better lens. The Sigma may come close around the center though.

I'm not sure you can tell coma from an MTF chart though.
 
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#110
neuroanatomist said:
But those white lenses do stand out at sporting events. And for a long time, they were synonymous with Canon. IMO, the ‘real’ story of Canon’s white paint is they’re a clever marketing tactic with a patina of technical rationale for it that’s exactly as thin as that white paint.
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It has always intrigued me why Sony has chosen white for their larger lenses... to look like Canon or not look like Nikon.
The large G stands out a little I guess but another colour would have been a better marketing position IMO. Maybe not beige or brown but maybe light blue.

At least Canon has moved away from white paint to their engineering plastic as it was always annoying to have the paint chip off around the mount.
 
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#111
Richard CR said:
you can't really compare MTF's between brands but a quick eyeballing seems to indicate it's better.

YMMV though.


View attachment 220715

Again, you can't really directly compare - but since the MTF's are vastly different, it's safe to say that the 24L is a much better lens. The Sigma may come close around the center though.

I'm not sure you can tell coma from an MTF chart though.
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It appears Canon has finally produced the first legitimate astrophotography lens with the new 24 f1.4. I own the Sigma 24 mm 1.4 Art and it is pretty good. I also own the Sigma 14 mm f 1.8 and it is quite good for a 14 mm lens. I would love to see Canon produce something wider but I will purchase this new 24 mm f 1.4 as a replacement for my Sigma and as my secondary astrophotography lens. Definitely will enjoy the native RF mount and not having to deal with the adapters, etc.

I am also intrigued by the new 70-200 and might purchase that as well pending the release of the 200-500 f4. I own the 24-70 f2.8 and love that lens. I considered the 25-105 f2.8 but am more interested in the 70-200 as a midrange telephoto for landscape photography. Would still like something from the 200-500 range and I have been disappointed in my copy of the 100-500 for longer range telephoto landscape shots. I find it quite soft at the longer end of the range. Hoping for something that is super sharp at 400-500 for mountain layer shots and telephoto dune and mountain shots.

Promising progress on some useful lenses by Canon lately.
 
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#113
neuroanatomist said:
We were discussing thermal issues and materials used in lens construction. I stated, “If there was a compelling engineering reason…”

Is it your contention that the on-set distraction of a lens color is an engineering problem? If so, you have an unorthodox definition of the word ‘engineering’.
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Heat reflection would be the engineering reason to offer it in white. Recognizing that a large percentage of their customers do not need the heat reflection for their intended use case and prefer black for other reasons is the reason to offer it in both colors. Even from the engineering perspective, I highly doubt the rationale was ever that the lens wouldn't work at all painted black... just that it works better / in more scenarios painted white

They certainly seem to be advertising the white model as the one to get if you're worried about heat. Whether there's a practical difference in real life is another matter. There almost certainly is a marketing component too. Otherwise I'm sure they'd paint some of the higher end cameras (which have well known heat issues these days) white too.
 
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#114
m4ndr4ke said:
Well, black for studio, white for using outside. Canon advertises the white lens as having a "thermal shield", due to its traditional white special painting, ...
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Thanks for pointing that out @m4ndr4ke.
I knew about that technical background about the thermal sensitivity of fluorite elements (when used).
But maybe others didn't.

As I would use that lens both in- and outdoors, I'd prefer white (even though I didn't read about fluorite elements in that lens).
 
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#116
m4ndr4ke said:
I do know, however, that the little guides that run on the zoom helicoids in Canon zoom lenses are made out of teflon (PTFE), which doesn't cope well with high temperatures, as it can get permanently deformed with heat.
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Maybe that could be a reason, too.
But at which temps do you expect PTFE guides to deform?
I only know that its melting point is at 327 °C and that it can be used for cooking and in ovens up to 240 °C, but it begins to decompose at about 260 °C.
 
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#117
Tom W said:
I've had my EF 50/1.4 since 2003. Not the greatest lens in the world, though it does offer up a smoother bokeh than the 1.8 lenses of the time.

Looks like its time to replace it - although this new 1.4 is a little expensive (and I have the old 50/1.2L EF lens to fall back on), it might well prove to be a very good portrait/event lens. Actually, a 24, an 50, and something like the 135 would make a nice trio for low light events as long as you don't have to be too far from the subject.
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Yeah, definitely time to replace it! Consider that even the RF 50 f1.8 has the old EF 50 f1.4 for breakfast, as I tested myself few months ago when I had a copy of the old EF passing in my hands for a week: https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/t...d-party-lens-manufacturers.43295/#post-987288
 
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#118
neuroanatomist said:
We were discussing thermal issues and materials used in lens construction. I stated, “If there was a compelling engineering reason…”

Is it your contention that the on-set distraction of a lens color is an engineering problem? If so, you have an unorthodox definition of the word ‘engineering’.
Click to expand...
I gave you an engineering reason before (heat), that apparently you ignored.


neuroanatomist said:
Do you think the >$20K black cine lenses with fluorite are only used indoors? Nikon lenses are all black. Doesn’t seem to be a problem.
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Do they use PTFE on their zoom helicoids? I don’t know, but I know Canon photography lenses do. I expect Cine lenses to be a lot tougher.

Maximilian said:
Maybe that could be a reason, too.
But at which temps do you expect PTFE guides to deform?
I only know that its melting point is at 327 °C and that it can be used for cooking and in ovens up to 240 °C, but it begins to decompose at about 260 °C.
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My old EF 70-200mm was repaired because of this (I got it second hand). CPS, at that time, told me that I should never store my gear in the car, as the temperatures inside could reach 60 to 70° C, when exposed to the sun, and that that would be enough to deform the little guides running on the helicoids. They thought I used to do that, as it was a common issue with people that have that habit.
So I guess the answer is “a lot lower than you would expect”.

After that lens, I briefly had a Tamron 70-200mm G2, which is black. That Tamron definitely got pretty hot in the sun, enough to sometimes drive home for over an hour, and the lens would still be very warm.
 
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#119
m4ndr4ke said:
My old EF 70-200mm was repaired because of this (I got it second hand). CPS, at that time, told me that I should never store my gear in the car, as the temperatures inside could reach 60 to 70° C, when exposed to the sun, and that that would be enough to deform the little guides running on the helicoids. They thought I used to do that, as it was a common issue with people that have that habit.
So I guess the answer is “a lot lower than you would expect”.
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Really interesting example. Thanks.
TBH, hard to believe that the temps would be that low. I would have expected 100 to 150°C at least.
 
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#120
Maximilian said:
Really interesting example. Thanks.
TBH, hard to believe that the temps would be that low. I would have expected 100 to 150°C at least.
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Maybe it will deform over time, with the prolonged exposure to heat, I don’t know. At 70° C the material may not be very soft to touch but, considering it is assembled with tight tolerances, perhaps that’s enough to misalign the elements it supports.
You don’t have to heat a material up to its melting point to be able to bend it, right? That’s what I’m thinking. These parts are assembled inside the lens for several years, decades even.
 
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