The next allocation of Canon EOS R5 Mark II is hitting retailers

#21
amorse said:
While I do appreciate the additional effort to improve punctuation from the initial post, I couldn't disagree with this specific part of your post any more than I already do. This whole comment feels like it can be shortened to saying "too many people are buying the camera that don't deserve it or don't plan on using it right, and because of that, real photographers are unable to buy it. Only people who I think deserve it should be able to buy it". That just sounds to me like a massive pile of gate-keeping. Here's a few questions to reflect on that bring me to that conclusion.
  • What exactly makes a photographer legitimate? Who decides that?
  • What evidence is there that people are buying these cameras for status? Is it a hand full of people posting on internet forums, and what proportion of R5ii owners does that account for? Does anyone actually gain status from having a new camera?
  • Even if people are buying the camera for status (or any other purpose you've identified as illegitimate), would it be better for Canon to restrict that behaviour, or to sell as many units as they possible can to anyone with the money? You listed this change as "imperative", but I can't see that being imperative for anyone other than the hand full of people who didn't get the camera as quickly as they wanted to - certainly not for Canon.
  • If priority will be given to professionals and artists over pretenders and speculators, how do we decide which category people fit into? Minimum sales per year? Instagram likes? Gallery showings? Award wins? Percentage of income derived from photography? What about on the other side of the equations for pretenders and speculators - People that do Gear reviews? People with fewer than 10k exposures on their last camera?
I mean, come on. How does any of that sound like a good idea? Here's a hot take - I think a free market would suggest that anyone with the money, ability to find a retailer with inventory, or anyone with the forethought to pre-order early has earned their right to buy the camera regardless of what they plan on doing with it. I think setting special criteria over who has the right to buy the camera gets ugly fast.
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While I fully concur and laud the effort, it puts me in mind of when my kids were younger. If one threw a tantrum because they wanted a chocolate bar for dinner, I would not have launched into a treatise about nutrition and dietary requirements for a healthy lifestyle.
 
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#23
Big_Ant_TV_Media said:
im glad u get what im saying these POSERS,BLOGGERS AND ETC just flooding the preorder list even on Sony gear its very eye opening from what ive seen and was told by nyc area camera sellers and etc
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New York City (I assume by your acronym) is not the centre of the world even if it feels like it to you.
"real" photographers would have been poised on their keyboard the moment the pre-orders are available.

For Canon, not meeting their initial demand is good in that the marketing/engineering buzz hit the target. Now it is for manufacturing to deliver the rest and hit the shareholder targets.
 
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#24
Big_Ant_TV_Media said:
Observations from Facebook to Instagram suggest an influx of novice and self-proclaimed semi-professional photographers attempting to acquire the Canon R5 Mark II, inundating online forums and groups with complaints and issues stemming from a lack of familiarity with the camera's manual or available online resources. This phenomenon is delaying availability for legitimate photographers worldwide, as these individuals and 'camera enthusiasts' dominate preorder lists and stock purchases, mirroring the trend of purchasing the latest iPhone for status symbolization rather than genuine utility. It is imperative that the camera industry undergoes significant changes to prioritize allocation of equipment to established professionals and artists over pretenders and camera speculators.
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I would like you to prove that you are not a novice/self-proclaimed semi-professional and that you are legitimate (vs illegitimate?) and deserving of being at the top of the list.
It sounds much more like "I want to speak to your manager" attitude.

In my experience, "artists" using cameras don't (as a rule) focus as much on tech/spec sheets as others. No questions about the validity of their output of course but to create that buyer distinction is ambiguous at least and derogatory at worst.

Note that "camera enthusiasts" money is just as real as anyone else's money is.

Given that there is a different menu structure in the R5ii vs previous models (and inability to copy settings across), the sheer complexity of features and significant new users from DLSR (not R5 upgraders), then it would not surprise me that there are a lot of questions that previous R5 users would consider "basic".

The R5ii's advanced user guide is 30% longer at 1227 pages than the guide for the R5!
 
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#26
I told you that the earlier 6 months \"no availability\" notice by Canon was fake and just a push to make people buy. The camera has been available (with lens) since then on BH and easily available in India with or without lens... Uff.
 
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#28
amorse said:
While I do appreciate the additional effort to improve punctuation from the initial post, I couldn't disagree with this specific part of your post any more than I already do.
...
I think setting special criteria over who has the right to buy the camera gets ugly fast.
Click to expand...
Thanks, amorse, for getting this discussion back to facts and arguments.
IMO, your post hit the nail - and drove it into the wood with one blow.
 
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#29
Big_Ant_TV_Media said:
Observations from Facebook to Instagram suggest an influx of novice and self-proclaimed semi-professional photographers attempting to acquire the Canon R5 Mark II, inundating online forums and groups with complaints and issues stemming from a lack of familiarity with the camera's manual or available online resources. This phenomenon is delaying availability for legitimate photographers worldwide, as these individuals and 'camera enthusiasts' dominate preorder lists and stock purchases, mirroring the trend of purchasing the latest iPhone for status symbolization rather than genuine utility. It is imperative that the camera industry undergoes significant changes to prioritize allocation of equipment to established professionals and artists over pretenders and camera speculators.
Click to expand...

Isn't there CPS for this? The R5 is a prosumer / professional hybrid camera. some people could be coming from the video side and unfamiliar with the photographic side. also, people coming from Sony would tend to have more questions because they are used to Sony's way of thinking (or lack thereof).

Also - if you want an exclusive camera - buy a Leica, a Hasselblad, or a Phase One - how is an R5 Mark II an exclusive professional-only camera and why on earth would Canon limit sales to a market segment?

The only significant change necessary is your attitude.
 
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#30
David - Sydney said:
New York City (I assume by your acronym) is not the centre of the world even if it feels like it to you.
"real" photographers would have been poised on their keyboard the moment the pre-orders are available.

[…]
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I suspect it’s only the subset of photographers who are in the market for a new 5 series body and knew an R5II was coming did that. In my case, pre-orders opened up at noon during a family vacation, so I had time and opportunity to keep refreshing the websites :)

We only know that more people want an R5II than Canon can currently deliver :)
 
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#32
Toamelicious said:
Have you seen the reactions to the diminished dynamic range of the R5II?
As soon as photonstophotos data got released, people started shitting themselves.
Doomsayers said doom and fanboys fanned like there was no tomorrow. It was glorious.
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On the more emotionally volatile forums, like dpreview, there are a number of “I canceled my preorder” threads as well as “I cancelled my cancellation” posts.
The angst brightens my day :)
 
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#33
David - Sydney said:
I would like you to prove that you are not a novice/self-proclaimed semi-professional and that you are legitimate (vs illegitimate?) and deserving of being at the top of the list.
It sounds much more like "I want to speak to your manager" attitude.

In my experience, "artists" using cameras don't (as a rule) focus as much on tech/spec sheets as others. No questions about the validity of their output of course but to create that buyer distinction is ambiguous at least and derogatory at worst.

Note that "camera enthusiasts" money is just as real as anyone else's money is.

Given that there is a different menu structure in the R5ii vs previous models (and inability to copy settings across), the sheer complexity of features and significant new users from DLSR (not R5 upgraders), then it would not surprise me that there are a lot of questions that previous R5 users would consider "basic".

The R5ii's advanced user guide is 30% longer at 1227 pages than the guide for the R5!
Click to expand...
"Karen" wants to buy a camera and doesn't get one immediately...:p
 
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#34
UK may be a special case (of initial under-provision) but I received my extra 2 batteries two weeks ago, and my camera yesterday (17 Sep)! I pre-ordered on 17 July but missed out on the first batch of cameras in August. Wex agreed to start the warranty on the batteries on the day my camera arrived on the grounds that I had no way until then of checking their state. Can't complain about the service or the communication from Wex.
 
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#35
David - Sydney said:
I would like you to prove that you are not a novice/self-proclaimed semi-professional and that you are legitimate (vs illegitimate?) and deserving of being at the top of the list.
It sounds much more like "I want to speak to your manager" attitude.
Click to expand...
I checked his Facebook site on what he photographs - mainly scantily clad females in different swimware was posted. It would seem to me that eye/face recognition was a bit too high up for his purposes, though left or right might be applicable, and that face registration could be replaced by a different part of the anatomy.
 
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#36
amorse said:
I, too, look forward to the day where camera companies set up some sort of photographer credit score which determines who they will sell to first rather than selling on a first come first serve basis.

"Hi Canon, I'd like to buy this new camera you just announced!"

"After reviewing your photos, we don't feel that you're a good fit for our camera and we're going to wait for someone better to click buy. But by all means, please come back and ask again in 6 months once we've supplied more talented photographers!"

"Oh... ok..."
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Oh...no...that sound exactly like the Rolex buying model.....no thanks. Do you really want a corportate to evalute if you are worthy of owning one of it's products and then they choose which model they think is right for you and only allowing you to buy that specific product......no thanks.
 
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#37
Big_Ant_TV_Media said:
Observations from Facebook to Instagram suggest an influx of novice and self-proclaimed semi-professional photographers attempting to acquire the Canon R5 Mark II, inundating online forums and groups with complaints and issues stemming from a lack of familiarity with the camera's manual or available online resources. This phenomenon is delaying availability for legitimate photographers worldwide, as these individuals and 'camera enthusiasts' dominate preorder lists and stock purchases, mirroring the trend of purchasing the latest iPhone for status symbolization rather than genuine utility. It is imperative that the camera industry undergoes significant changes to prioritize allocation of equipment to established professionals and artists over pretenders and camera speculators.
Click to expand...
I've left all of those weird groups on Facebook. If they are troubling my personal karma, then life is too short to be a member of said group.
Sites that promote actual photosharing are more my thing these days and I have little time for reading about self obsessed narcasssists (it's social media right?) who are only interesting in bragging about their latest gear aquisitions.
 
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#38
vignes said:
I think Canon needs to sort out the battery LP-E6P availability more than the camera. I have the R5M2 but hard to get the battery. Some of the functions don't work with other Canon batteries.
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This is why I never buy a new to market "state of the art" camera in the first 6 months from it's lauch. There's just no support for it, from accessories through to raw support / Light room profiles. I've been burned so many times, I now wait until all the supply is stable, I can actually use the files from the camera in Light room, I can easily buy any grip / battery / card / remote clicky....etc that I might need or want. Other wise it's just one big frustration. I prefer to let everyone else do the initial shake downs and integration.
 
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#39
AlanF said:
I checked his Facebook site on what he photographs - mainly scantily clad females in different swimware was posted. It would seem to me that eye/face recognition was a bit too high up for his purposes, though left or right might be applicable, and that face registration could be replaced by a different part of the anatomy.
Click to expand...
I guess we could call his photography "birds of a different feather".....
 
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#40
As a point of reference from a UK customer, I pre-ordered from cvp.com within an hour of the announcement but still didn't make the first batch. I was then told I would receive it on the 16th September, only to be told it was delayed, and then received it on 12th September. I have no lead time on the battery grip and additional batteries.
 
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