Print pricing

Hey Kit Lens, start by telling us where you're at physically, so we can at least get the currency right. There is a lot that goes into pricing a print, and depending on what your end goal is. Things like taxes and such also have to come into play, so keep that in mind. Here's the pieces that you should add up to figure out a price:

- Start with the frame, generally speaking you paid retail for it, so since you out out money in advance, plus have to keep it in pristine shape. Charge 2-2.5x the retail price for the frame. Don't factor in discounts or such, as you need to keep your pricing steady, and that frame special won't be there when you have 10 prints on order at an already agreed to price.

- Next, decide on matting, as it does speak to how you value the work. It also costs more, so it may be worth learning how to cut your own mats. Roll it into the frame price, but if you're cutting your own mats, budget for a mis-cut every 2-3 sheets.

- Are you printing in house or having them printed elsewhere? This matters a lot, as a lab can get you consistent prints at a price, but you aren't on the hook for the printer, ink and hopefully not that many test or problem prints. In house gives you a lot of control, but does your target customer care? Ink is liquid gold, and maintaining a printer can get expensive if you come across print head issues or such. If you have a lab print, charge 2-3x your cost, if you're printing in house, figure out your cost per page (including the printer) & multiply by 3 or 4.

- What are you doing to thank the local businesses that let you use their walls? Budget for a print or two for them to keep for their home, or offer up coffee for the office or a lunch delivery. If they love you, that love shows to a customer who may be looking at the print. You haven't said how you collect money from the sale, are you relying on the business to take that and pass it along to you?

- What marketing collateral do you have on hand for someone to walk away with? Business cards, flyers, QR code to scan? If someone wants a different colored frame, how do they get in contact with you to make it personal?

- What are you doing to make this whole thing worth your time, effort and fronting the money? Even if it's just $5, build it in to every piece. You're not going to get rich, but you need to define that value.

So, that gives you:

Frame retail cost ( X 2 to 2.5)
+ Print cost ( X 2 to 4)
+ % for thanking host business
+ $ for you
----------------
General idea of where to start (before taxes & fees)

Expect that you'll have to eat a few frames and prints now and then, based on any number of different issues. Broken frames happen, prints get marked, imperfections you didn't see before purchasing will turn up and you have to deal with it.

Remember, you can always discount, but you'll have a hard time raising prices. Also, make sure you have a stated return policy, as in you'll work to make them happy, but sales are final. If you need to swap a print or frame, it's not a total loss where as a cash refund ends up costing you.

Are your prints limited in number, or not? That usually may impact the price as well. Of course, you have to ensure you don't print more than the stated number. But beyond what costs you to make the print and frame it, it's a matter of how much people are willingly to pay.

Anyway, be careful about air circulating between the glass and the print. A mat or the like is OK, but the frame should be "sealed" to avoid contaminants getting in.

Yea, you're in the same boat as I, trying to get the hobby to cover just a few of it's costs. You can setup a SquareUp or Paypal.me site to take payment in credit cards, and have it auto-email yourself & someone at the store that 'yes, person paid for X print. One thing to keep in mind is that while 16x24 is the ideal size for you, what slightly smaller size would work for others? I say this with walls covered with 20x30's.

$100 is fine for the size, but may be a touch low considering a frame. Generally speaking those who are undercutting you most likely are using one off frames. Depending on your style, matching frames may or may not matter to you, but it's all about the customer right?

Kit Lens Jockey said:

What would the proper way be, if any, to "seal" a frame?

Click to expand...

Depends on how the frame is built, you can find some advices for example here:

https://www.nedcc.org/free-resources/preservation-leaflets/4.-storage-and-handling/4.10-matting-and-framing-for-art-and-artifacts-on-paper

Just remember these are state-of-the-art solutions for valuable works - it also implies selecting the proper acid-free and chemically stable materials to avoid issues - which will add to the costs.

How far you want to go for the prints you sell is up to you. But IMHO is good to know it, and then decide if and what compromises are acceptable.

KL Jockey,
I would avoid selling naked prints (or art), it really makes the product appear unfinished.
I may suggest that properly matted/framed is the best way to present your photos/arts and present them for sale. I encountered people who said the presentation is part of the appeal to the art and thus purchase. Improperly matted/framed most often result in no sale.
As for 100 year preservation material (acid free paper, sealed, etc.,) I am not completely for it, especially for photos. Few are precious enough to warrant such treatment.
I sold several photos with double matted and inexpensive frames (Michael's Art Supply Store.) While the frames were on sale, I'd purchase (~$25 ea) enough to produce a show. Figure about $10 for a full size sheet of mat board which I get enough for 4 single mats, plus a nominal cost of foam-core board for the backing. I do my own mat cutting and photo printing (with an 8 pigments Epson printer) which I estimate to be about $5 to print. My labour is not included, though.
So, I sold my mounted photos for $150. Not too much to afford (for buyers), and not too much to get rich (for me.) However, my feeling is satisfied by having someone enjoy my photos enough to shell out money for them.
-r

PS., since I cut my mats both for myself and for my wife's water color paintings, I am critical of other artists' mats, too. I saw some which were not straight, and the mitered corners were overcut, and I have to say that I'm not impressed. I saw one mat that the bevel cut was reversed!

The artwork I buy for my office usually sits in the $150 - $300 range. I suspect that is a fairly common price bracket for many small businesses who just want to add some visual interest.

Every photo that I have hanging in my house (my wife complains that there are too many) has either a mat or white border where normally a mat would go. Basically the frame is one size bigger then the photo and then it "floats" on the white background. The only exceptions are two 24x36 prints. I don't really like the frame to frame look for photos.

lion rock said:

As for 100 year preservation material (acid free paper, sealed, etc.,) I am not completely for it, especially for photos. Few are precious enough to warrant such treatment.

Click to expand...

Prints that after a few years (not 100) start to show UV yellowing, stains, or humidity-related issues - you'll never know where they may be installed - won't bode well for your business - unless they're used for temporary installations only. Even without going the full "100 year archival" procedure, sometimes it's just a matter of avoiding materials known for creating issues quickly, i.e. some cheap tapes or the like.

LDS,
I fully understand the degradation of an artwork through time or environment. I'll state that my photos are not the type that inspires collectors to keep for generations :'( 8). I'm just happy that they hang on their walls for a year or two.
For my wife's watercolor, they're mounted with a bit more care, material and workmanship. Of course, her paintings sell much more than my photos by several times. Her competition pieces are professionally mounted/framed. The costs reflect such treatment. We'll never be able to afford such professional service for every piece of her paintings .
Still I feel that the complete "package" is important whether to keep or sell. If it is worth a "wall covering," it is worth to package it well.
Thanks for your comment.
-r

If he is using pigment inks (as he says) and not dye inks, I think the print life is not a concern. Even without a sealed backing, it should last longer than most people will keep it hanging. Of course there are longevity variables when it comes to compatablity of ink and paper, but I don't know how much of an issue. I use a photo lab which I find both easier and cheaper than printing at home (but I also worked at that same lab for two decades, so I am biased).

As you noted at the start, there are no simple straightforward answers. The initial advice of marking up frame and print costs 2.5-3 times I think is solid advice. It is also good the way you are going about it - display at an established business instead of trying to do weekend arts and crafts shows. Those people (at least the ones I have seen) give away their work for practically nothing - just insane.

As for the suggestion for offering smaller sizes, I would maybe put a simple note next to the framed piece saying "other sizes available." This could imply either smaller or bigger, assuming you have the resolution to go bigger. I mean what if someone loves a piece and wants a framed and matted 30x40 or 40x60 for their living room?

As for numbered "limited edition", let's be honest. That is a marketing ploy that is essentially meaningless for all but the most famous high-end photographers. For most of us (including the thread starter), let's say we do a "limited edition" of one hundred. Even without limiting them, it is extremely unlikely we would ever sell more than a hundred regardless. However, it can add perceived value, even if the real world value is null. I have never done it myself and I see no reason to, but if you want to I don't think it can hurt because as I said you will likely never outsell your limit anyway.

I've gradually gotten used to the idea of plastic glazing instead of glass in my frames. It's lighter and cheaper. I've noticed it doesn't scratch as easily as plastic did several years ago. I'm not sure about UV protection.

I had to buy 20 frames for a gallery show last year and found a bargain at IKEA. I also liked the fact that the frames were already packed in cases so you could easily lift 10 or 12 at a time.

I rather liked this one: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/00298289/#/00297416

It comes with a pre-cut mat board which is nice if you are trying to mass produce saleable framed prints.

drmikeinpdx said:

I've gradually gotten used to the idea of plastic glazing instead of glass in my frames. It's lighter and cheaper. I've noticed it doesn't scratch as easily as plastic did several years ago. I'm not sure about UV protection.

I had to buy 20 frames for a gallery show last year and found a bargain at IKEA. I also liked the fact that the frames were already packed in cases so you could easily lift 10 or 12 at a time.

I rather liked this one: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/00298289/#/00297416

It comes with a pre-cut mat board which is nice if you are trying to mass produce saleable framed prints.

Click to expand...

I print a rotating exhibition for a local authority. We use these frames from Ikea, they come with a cut mat and glass. They aren't particularly good quality, what at Ikea is, but they do the job and the rotation means each print has a hang time of 6 months. Biggest issue for me is the 3x4 format whereas most entries are 3x2.

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/00305869/

LDS said:

lion rock said:

As for 100 year preservation material (acid free paper, sealed, etc.,) I am not completely for it, especially for photos. Few are precious enough to warrant such treatment.

Click to expand...

Prints that after a few years (not 100) start to show UV yellowing, stains, or humidity-related issues - you'll never know where they may be installed - won't bode well for your business - unless they're used for temporary installations only. Even without going the full "100 year archival" procedure, sometimes it's just a matter of avoiding materials known for creating issues quickly, i.e. some cheap tapes or the like.

Click to expand...

Yes, in one season, the wrong materials can wrinkle or bleed thru a print. As long as materials and mounting techniques to avoid this are followed, a print should be fine for many many years.