A Canon Global Shutter Sensor – Would the next 3 series camera be the place to introduce one?

Richard CR

Richard CR

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Dec 27, 2017
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#1
Canon, when they have bothered to say much about the subject have always stated that they wanted image quality to improve from model to model on their cameras. Even though Canon’s definition of image quality at times was a bit suspect (for example JPEG-only output, etc), for the most part, they have held to that,

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#2
Canon, when they have bothered to say much about the subject have always stated that they wanted image quality to improve from model to model on their cameras. Even though Canon’s definition of image quality at times was a bit suspect (for example JPEG-only output, etc), for the most part, they have held to that, with minor variations (for instance the R5 Mark II being slightly worse than the R5). Speed also has an impact on image quality, from being able to capture movement without any distortion, to panning without any rolling shutter distortion. The faster the sensor is, the

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#5
That might make sense for the R3 line in terms of what it is/was.
Still, market wise, I would think there's a bigger market for a higher megapixel camera in the R3 format. May not make sense for the R3 line though.

Maybe an R2 (or R1s) as a higher megapixel top-end camera, like 65MPx but with the same AF pixel distribution and viewfinder as the R1, for portrait/wildlife shooters/enthusiasts; and a 20-24MPx global shutter R3 because... they can?

I'm still skeptical of the market size for a global shutter R3 versus what they've already targeted with the R1.
 
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#6
Assuming it would have the same performance in dynamic range and high ISO a global sensor shutter is fine. Otherwise I would rather they stick with a fast readout sensor like the R1 and boost the resolution a bit while maintain solid high ISO performance while introducing quad pixel AF.
 
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#8
Richard was trying to give a logical successor to the EOS R3, which has been discussed before. All I have been told is the 3 series will continue after the EOS R3, the when part is completely unknown.

This seems like the best idea I have heard yet. I'm also extremely confident Canon is not going to release such a sensor until they are confident there is minimal image quality loss compared to say the EOS R1.
 
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#9
I have a crystal ball at home. It only works on quite useless stuff, like forum reactions though.
But I can take a look...
And I see the following hazy comment future:
"This should be called the R1II as the R3 should have been called R1 and the R1 should have been called R3. But canon wasn't keeping up with the competition."

Clouded by the dork side the future is.
 
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#10
Toamelicious said:
I have a crystal ball at home. It only works on quite useless stuff, like forum reactions though.
But I can take a look...
And I see the following hazy comment future:
"This should be called the R1II as the R3 should have been called R1 and the R1 should have been called R3. But canon wasn't keeping up with the competition."

Clouded by the dork side the future is.
Click to expand...

No
 
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#11
Curious about poeple's thoughts on completely eliminating the mechanical shutter and having the sensor always exposed when changing lenses.

After 2 years with the R5, I switched to 100% electronic shutter (haven't used strobes in a while). Even with the R7 I have been 100% on ES. With the R3, I never used the mechanical shutter, however, when I check the exposure release count it says <1000, because I do have it set to close the shutter when the camera is tured off.

It does feel good to have the shutter closed when changing lenses in the field, but I always wonder if it makes too much difference. If the shutter protects dust by collecting (at least some) of it, then once the lens is attached, the camera turned on and the shutter opens, presumably some of that dust will just be there and get to the sensor anyway.

So, is it useful to have a mecanical "protective shutter", cheaper to implement since it doesn't have any real performance requirement? Or is the benefit not large enough to justify having one?
 
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#12
The evolution to mirrorless finally made sense to me when I saw an analysis on how much less expensive/easier to manufacture mirrorless bodies would be (more automated manufacturing, fewer moving parts, etc). Sure there are the bells/whistles like seeing a level or histogram through the EVF....but long term, this was a cost savings to the manufacturers.

My point being that the direction that camera manufactures go may not necessarily be the most technically innovative. Rather, 1) you either have to be so technically innovative that the innovation will sell a lot of cameras or 2) you have to save the manufacturer money.

Now that we have sub 3 ms readout speeds, does a GS do either?
 
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#13
PinholeR5 said:
It does feel good to have the shutter closed when changing lenses in the field, but I always wonder if it makes too much difference. If the shutter protects dust by collecting (at least some) of it, then once the lens is attached, the camera turned on and the shutter opens, presumably some of that dust will just be there and get to the sensor anyway.

So, is it useful to have a mecanical "protective shutter", cheaper to implement since it doesn't have any real performance requirement? Or is the benefit not large enough to justify having one?
Click to expand...
I think the answer is that it doesn't make much difference in the field. But consider that you might use the camera for a few hours but for most people the camera probably spends more time powered off than in use. So I think there is a real benefit to a protective shutter, but it's not during lens changes it's when the camera is sitting idle giving any dust in the box plenty of time to settle out, where some of it will land on the sensor.

I use my R3 in silent mode a lot, and when I don't remember to go back to normal shooting before putting the camera away, I have to clean the sensor more frequently.
 
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#17
Toamelicious said:
I was wondering the same thing.
Probably different weighting of the subjects in favour of the Sony.
Click to expand...
Their 'sensor score' is a log scale, 5 points on the scale is 1/3 of a stop difference, meaning a 1-point difference is meaningless. Except to Sony fanboys.

FWIW, while DxO's algorithm is a black box I have seen it estimated as:
DxOMark_Sensor_Score = 58.8 + 4.3*(ColorDepth-21.1) + 3.4*(DynamicRange-11.3) + 4.4*log2(ISO/663)

Take that with a grain of salt.
 
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#18
PinholeR5 said:
Curious about poeple's thoughts on completely eliminating the mechanical shutter and having the sensor always exposed when changing lenses.

After 2 years with the R5, I switched to 100% electronic shutter (haven't used strobes in a while). Even with the R7 I have been 100% on ES. With the R3, I never used the mechanical shutter, however, when I check the exposure release count it says <1000, because I do have it set to close the shutter when the camera is tured off.

It does feel good to have the shutter closed when changing lenses in the field, but I always wonder if it makes too much difference. If the shutter protects dust by collecting (at least some) of it, then once the lens is attached, the camera turned on and the shutter opens, presumably some of that dust will just be there and get to the sensor anyway.

So, is it useful to have a mecanical "protective shutter", cheaper to implement since it doesn't have any real performance requirement? Or is the benefit not large enough to justify having one?
Click to expand...
As far as I know, the Z9/Z8 have a protective shutter but not a mechanical shutter for shooting.
 
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#19
neuroanatomist said:
Their 'sensor score' is a log scale, 5 points on the scale is 1/3 of a stop difference, meaning a 1-point difference is meaningless. Except to Sony fanboys.

FWIW, while DxO's algorithm is a black box I have seen it estimated as:
DxOMark_Sensor_Score = 58.8 + 4.3*(ColorDepth-21.1) + 3.4*(DynamicRange-11.3) + 4.4*log2(ISO/663)

Take that with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...
Sounds like one of those Facebook math quiz questions .
 
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#20
We now have 2 integrated grip bodies so the option to differentiate by sensor makes sense (a la 1D prior to 1Dx).
A 4 year cycle for the R3 would be ~Nov-2025.

It could be as simple as the R5ii in the R3 body similar to Z9/Z8 once the sales of the R5ii have eased in a year.

It could be to introduce a new stacked sensor faster than the R1 (or GS) which would push the price of the R3 GS closer to R1 and perhaps cannibalising R1 sales. Might not be as bad as it seems once the initial R1 sales have been made.

It could be a very high res sensor but I would imagine that the R5s would be a more natural evolution similar to 5Dr(s). Landscapers would not use portrait orientation as often as landscape but portrait shooters would use the integrated grip orientation frequently.

I am sure that there will be (or has been) focus groups run by Canon for ideas but as the R3 doesn't have the same continuous history as 1/5 series then they won't necessarily be constrained.
 
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