Canon EOS R5 Mark II for Bird Photography Feedback

AlanF

AlanF

Desperately seeking birds
Canon Rumors Premium
Aug 16, 2012
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#1
The R5 was probably the best in its class for recognition of static birds, reportedly better than the Sony A1 and Nikon Z9/8. There are reports that the R5ii is even better. There is a dearth of birds back home for live testing at present so I conducted a semi-quantitative test with the RF 100-500mm by sticking the attached photo of a Bearded Tit (about 4"/10cm from head to tail) next to my chart on my back wall. The R5 was able to pick out the bird up to 11m away, before focus switched to the chart. The R5ii was still fixed on the bird at about 35-40m distance, the furthest back I could go. That has sold the camera to me. More feedback from others appreciated.

DSC_8911-DxO_bearded_tit_back_right.jpg
 
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#2
Hey Alan,

Last weekend I spent two days in the Parc de Marquenterre nature reserve in France and was able to test the Mark2 in real life.
For me, I couldn't see a clear difference in detecting birds from the R5 to the Mark 2 version.

But what there is a clear difference for me is the tracking ability of the new focus. This means that the eye autofocus allows me to select a sitting target much more quickly and to create the composition the way I want with a quick pan of the camera.
I also find that the tracking of birds in flight is clearly better, so you get much more sharp images.

I think this can be seen most clearly in video mode. Here the focus is extremely quick and you hardly lose the bird from the plane of focus, which was often a problem with the old R5 (often a lot of focus pumping).
This was also one of the main reasons why I bought the Mark 2, as there was a significant improvement, especially in the video area.
I'm already looking forward to winter, when I'll try to catch the kingfisher diving again when the lake is almost frozen. I think the Mark 2 clearly beats its predecessor here, especially because of the precapture.

Unfortunately, there is still little denoising software that supports the Mark 2.
However, you can also work with Topaz Foto AI software using Photoshop and the results are very impressive. At high ISO I like the result better than with the R5.

I hope that the software translated it correctly into English, as unfortunately I'm not very fluent in English.
 
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#3
Alan, this is an amazing image no doubt.

For your testing and experience i feel that i really should try hard to save and afford R5II and never look back rather than buy the old R5 or even R6II which are already replaced or will be replaced, definitely there are improvements in newer versions otherwise they won't be worth it to be new and an upgrade.

I don't do birds at all, but i tried very very few times in the past for not good because of place i do image, my house's garden, but i will give it a better try if i can buy one of those new bodies instead of my old fashioned outdated DSLRs, and an image like yours and the comment you wrote are something to convince me to do so, thank you.
 
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#4
snudel said:
Hey Alan,

Last weekend I spent two days in the Parc de Marquenterre nature reserve in France and was able to test the Mark2 in real life.
For me, I couldn't see a clear difference in detecting birds from the R5 to the Mark 2 version.

But what there is a clear difference for me is the tracking ability of the new focus. This means that the eye autofocus allows me to select a sitting target much more quickly and to create the composition the way I want with a quick pan of the camera.
I also find that the tracking of birds in flight is clearly better, so you get much more sharp images.

I think this can be seen most clearly in video mode. Here the focus is extremely quick and you hardly lose the bird from the plane of focus, which was often a problem with the old R5 (often a lot of focus pumping).
This was also one of the main reasons why I bought the Mark 2, as there was a significant improvement, especially in the video area.
I'm already looking forward to winter, when I'll try to catch the kingfisher diving again when the lake is almost frozen. I think the Mark 2 clearly beats its predecessor here, especially because of the precapture.

Unfortunately, there is still little denoising software that supports the Mark 2.
However, you can also work with Topaz Foto AI software using Photoshop and the results are very impressive. At high ISO I like the result better than with the R5.

I hope that the software translated it correctly into English, as unfortunately I'm not very fluent in English.
Click to expand...
The translation is excellent! I have just come back from a holiday where I did a lot of shooting with the R5 and am very happy with the results. I just tried the R5ii for BIF and can confirm that it is even better for the consistency of AF in tracking birds with shot after shot tack sharp.

I used Lightroom or DPP4 to convert the RAWs to jpegs without any sharpening or denoising and then used Topaz A1 to denoise and sharpen.
 
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#5
tareqphoto said:
Alan, this is an amazing image no doubt.

For your testing and experience i feel that i really should try hard to save and afford R5II and never look back rather than buy the old R5 or even R6II which are already replaced or will be replaced, definitely there are improvements in newer versions otherwise they won't be worth it to be new and an upgrade.

I don't do birds at all, but i tried very very few times in the past for not good because of place i do image, my house's garden, but i will give it a better try if i can buy one of those new bodies instead of my old fashioned outdated DSLRs, and an image like yours and the comment you wrote are something to convince me to do so, thank you.
Click to expand...
The image I posted was not taken with the R5ii but just an old photo from 2020 I used as the target for testing the R5 and R5ii (it was actually taken with a Nikon D850 and 500/5.6 PF ;) - those DSLRs still take magnificent images),
 
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#6
AlanF said:
The image I posted was not taken with the R5ii but just an old photo from 2020 I used as the target for testing the R5 and R5ii (it was actually taken with a Nikon D850 and 500/5.6 PF ;) - those DSLRs still take magnificent images),
Click to expand...
I know those DSLRs still can take magnificent images and i still have the skills for that, but people don't depend on their skills much, they keep upgrading, and the proof [or prove] of my word is that so so many Olympics or even Fifa photojournalists and sports photographers are using those new cameras mirrorless, i assume all of them are into the industry for years and have best experiences for that, and yet they all or most upgraded either by themselves or their press companies, so in both cases it means skills isn't enough to stay with old models anyway, my 1DX was like a super upgrade by the time i bought where there isn't any Canon R made yet, but that camera is very soon upgraded by 1DXII and 1DXIII i couldn't afford back then, and now i am without any R models as well.
 
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#7
tareqphoto said:
I know those DSLRs still can take magnificent images and i still have the skills for that, but people don't depend on their skills much, they keep upgrading, and the proof [or prove] of my word is that so so many Olympics or even Fifa photojournalists and sports photographers are using those new cameras mirrorless, i assume all of them are into the industry for years and have best experiences for that, and yet they all or most upgraded either by themselves or their press companies, so in both cases it means skills isn't enough to stay with old models anyway, my 1DX was like a super upgrade by the time i bought where there isn't any Canon R made yet, but that camera is very soon upgraded by 1DXII and 1DXIII i couldn't afford back then, and now i am without any R models as well.
Click to expand...
Or some people may just enjoy moving to the new technology and embrace some of the benefits that come with it. If you can afford it or your company will provide it why not make the move. The persons skill set doesn't change and I believe everyone knows that a camera is nothing more then a tool.

I just bought a new track saw to build a cabinet for my daughter. The miters come out much cleaner. I already owned a circular saw but the track cuts a perfect line that I can't achieve free hand. Does that make me an unskilled woodworker?
 
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#8
MSH411 said:
Or some people may just enjoy moving to the new technology and embrace some of the benefits that come with it. If you can afford it or your company will provide it why not make the move. The persons skill set doesn't change and I believe everyone knows that a camera is nothing more then a tool.

I just bought a new track saw to build a cabinet for my daughter. The miters come out much cleaner. I already owned a circular saw but the track cuts a perfect line that I can't achieve free hand. Does that make me an unskilled woodworker?
Click to expand...
I don't like people using examples in different ways, so if skills doesn't related into new technology then no need to go with anything new at all, and that isn't about camera or lenses, and we always keep saying that if someone can't afford new things then those things are just tools, so tools or it is not about equipment only been said when can't buy them, i understand.

For me i also buy only to see and use new features or improvements within the tools, it doesn't mean i will be much better photographer for example, but it should help me get better images and results that should automatically make me better or make people liking my results more, it is natural, and it is not about need actually, it is always about want and the bad low budget we have so we can't afford then we keep saying it is only tools.

I will focus on affording R5II within like 5-8 months from now until maybe hearing about R6III and see what that will have, it is enough time i can decide on something i hope, i will not think about R5III or R1ii if they will make those next year which i doubt, but maybe they will announce about those next year for 2026 maybe?
 
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#9
tareqphoto said:
For me i also buy only to see and use new features or improvements within the tools, it doesn't mean i will be much better photographer for example, but it should help me get better images.
Click to expand...
As an example, I've been reliably able to follow birds with a long lens for many years. However, with prior cameras the AF could not always keep up and the frame rates did not always yield an optimal image. Now, with the R3 and my 600/4 II + 1.4x TC, I can follow a bird just as well across the sky, but usually all the images are in focus and with 30 fps, I can pick a shot with the optimal wing position. It's not that I could not achieve similar results before, but with the 1D X there was an element of luck whereas with the R3 the results are more reproducible...and keepers are more common (though at 30 fps, the keeper rate is pretty poor).
 
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#10
neuroanatomist said:
As an example, I've been reliably able to follow birds with a long lens for many years. However, with prior cameras the AF could not always keep up and the frame rates did not always yield an optimal image. Now, with the R3 and my 600/4 II + 1.4x TC, I can follow a bird just as well across the sky, but usually all the images are in focus and with 30 fps, I can pick a shot with the optimal wing position. It's not that I could not achieve similar results before, but with the 1D X there was an element of luck whereas with the R3 the results are more reproducible...and keepers are more common (though at 30 fps, the keeper rate is pretty poor).
Click to expand...
This is definitely an "EQUIPMENT" factor and not user, we only have to improve our skills to match new features and performances, otherwise we always will keep saying it is the photographer not tool, because we didn't match tools, and what you said clearly showing me how equipment can have something too, i am sure if i am good enough in birding not a pro if i use R3 or R1 or R5 i can beat any professional birding photographer using a mobile or point&shoot or old model moderate speed DSLRs, not comparing a pro with a noob beginner who doesn't know anything, in fact i asked a photographer who is working in press for 30 years sitting next to me when we both shoot a game, if he used 20 years old camera and i use a newest latest camera can he beats me, he said he can't beat me in fps rate and keepers, but he might match or beat me in having the moment shots i might miss, but he said that doesn't mean he will be the best and i am not good, it is only that experience played a role here, but he will always go for Equipment if he has that situation, and he already using new tools.
 
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#11
neuroanatomist said:
As an example, I've been reliably able to follow birds with a long lens for many years. However, with prior cameras the AF could not always keep up and the frame rates did not always yield an optimal image. Now, with the R3 and my 600/4 II + 1.4x TC, I can follow a bird just as well across the sky, but usually all the images are in focus and with 30 fps, I can pick a shot with the optimal wing position. It's not that I could not achieve similar results before, but with the 1D X there was an element of luck whereas with the R3 the results are more reproducible...and keepers are more common (though at 30 fps, the keeper rate is pretty poor).
Click to expand...
What's nice about the mirrorless is that the tracking is blackout-free and with the fast sensors no real lag - a much more pleasant experience than with the blackouts from the flipping mirror.
 
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#15
AlanF said:
Would it make any difference?
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After shooting small and large birds for the past two weeks, I do not think there is much to be improved by adding a “Birds” mode.

The AF picked up the wing of a sandwich tern emerging from the waves after a dive. The subsequent shots with the term emerging from the waves and flying away with the fish in its beak are all tack sharp.

See post in Birds in flight:
https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/t...share-your-bif-photos-here.19270/post-1009839
 
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#16
neuroanatomist said:
As an example, I've been reliably able to follow birds with a long lens for many years. However, with prior cameras the AF could not always keep up and the frame rates did not always yield an optimal image. Now, with the R3 and my 600/4 II + 1.4x TC, I can follow a bird just as well across the sky, but usually all the images are in focus and with 30 fps, I can pick a shot with the optimal wing position. It's not that I could not achieve similar results before, but with the 1D X there was an element of luck whereas with the R3 the results are more reproducible...and keepers are more common (though at 30 fps, the keeper rate is pretty poor).
Click to expand...
Many of the current R5 photographers are really thrilled with their existing cameras and wonder what possible improvements can there be? Anyone with a R6ii or R3 will already know that answer and the R5ii brings that camera trail up to the same point and maybe adds a few nice features like pre-capture.

However, after downloading a number of raw files from the R5ii and looking at the shadow detaila areas....looking at the camera price and specification....I'm finding myslef more attracted to an R3 than I am with the R5ii. The few times I need 45mp, Ai uprezzed images from my current R6ii easily equal anything from the R5's 45mp sensor and the R3 gains even more DR and low ISO noise on higher ISo values than the R6ii or R5ii can achieve.
The R3 is also 14 bit in ES mode and it has an even faster sensor read out. It has a superior battery that can drive the big white lenses better.
 
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#17
GMCPhotographics said:
Many of the current R5 photographers are really thrilled with their existing cameras and wonder what possible improvements can there be? Anyone with a R6ii or R3 will already know that answer and the R5ii brings that camera trail up to the same point and maybe adds a few nice features like pre-capture.

However, after downloading a number of raw files from the R5ii and looking at the shadow detaila areas....looking at the camera price and specification....I'm finding myslef more attracted to an R3 than I am with the R5ii. The few times I need 45mp, Ai uprezzed images from my current R6ii easily equal anything from the R5's 45mp sensor and the R3 gains even more DR and low ISO noise on higher ISo values than the R6ii or R5ii can achieve.
The R3 is also 14 bit in ES mode and it has an even faster sensor read out. It has a superior battery that can drive the big white lenses better.
Click to expand...
AI upresolving doesn't always work successfully when applied to bird plumage. In my experience, if there is fine detail on the edge of being resolved, there are often artefacts on upresolving by Topaz. It works best when there is not such detail but smoother transitions of colour. Conversely, in practice, you see the advantage of 45 Mpx over 20 Mpx or using a 1.4xTC if there is detail that is on the verge of resolution at 20 Mpx and an extra 40% brings it out. 45 Mpx vs 20 Mpx is pretty much the same gain in resolution as the RF 100-500mm at 500mm vs the RF 100-800mm at 700-800mm, and believe me you can see the difference when you are limited by reach.

I have dug out a couple of charts of the RF 100-500mm on the R5 (top) and R6 (middle) and R6 with 1.4xTC (bottom) at a distance of 19m away. You can see the extra resolution of the more dense sensor.

309A0516-DxO_R5_500mm_19m.jpgJT9A2251-DxO_R6_500mm_19m.jpgJT9A2246-DxO_R6_700mm_19m.jpg
 
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#18
neuroanatomist said:
As an example, I've been reliably able to follow birds with a long lens for many years. However, with prior cameras the AF could not always keep up and the frame rates did not always yield an optimal image. Now, with the R3 and my 600/4 II + 1.4x TC, I can follow a bird just as well across the sky, but usually all the images are in focus and with 30 fps, I can pick a shot with the optimal wing position. It's not that I could not achieve similar results before, but with the 1D X there was an element of luck whereas with the R3 the results are more reproducible...and keepers are more common (though at 30 fps, the keeper rate is pretty poor).
Click to expand...
In the mid range of the R series like the R7, the only real advantage over my Nikon D500 is the lightness of the RF telephotos and the bodies and perhaps the eye detection. The lightness was the main reason I changed but otherwise nothing much has improved and the viewfinder is way behind the optical one.
 
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