Canon has a global shutter camera in the pipeline

#3
Canon Rumors Guy said:
Sony decided it was time to shake up the mirrorless camera market again, with equipping a global shutter in the A9 III. It was a very well received camera in the Sony community, but I'm not sure it moved anyone out of their current brand. It comes with some trade-offs such as a higher base ISO of 250 and some dynamic range penalties at lower ISOs.
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The a9 III also has dynamic range issues at high ISO where it is most important.
I am not sure why so many people fail to mention this.
 
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#6
in the world of sub 3ms readout speeds, I am trying to wrap my head around where GS makes sense.

The answer I am coming too:
High readout/High MP/fast action.

Thinking though the math the R1 is reading its sensor at 2.7 ms: 24MB/0.0027 sec =8,889 MB/sec. The R5 II: 45MB/0.0063 sec=7,142 MB/sec. Likely higher as I am using 1:1 MP to MB here.

Say Canon has a 60 MP sensor where they want sub 3 ms readout speeds? That would be 60 MP/0.003 sec = 20,000 MB/sec. Perhaps beyond the next generation of Digic.

Or, as these decisions usually boil down to cost, getting a digic/other readout hardware to do ~20,000 MB/sec is more costly than a global shutter.

All speculation, but this fits for a high resolution R3 or R7. With R3 it makes some sense to me as the R1 would be ultimate IQ and R3 would take an IQ hit but give higher MP. I’ll happily take ultimate IQ.
 
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#7
docsmith said:
in the world of sub 3ms readout speeds, I am trying to wrap my head around where GS makes sense.

The answer I am coming too:
High readout/High MP/fast action.

Thinking though the math the R1 is reading its sensor at 2.7 ms: 24MB/0.0027 sec =8,889 MB/sec. The R5 II: 45MB/0.0063 sec=7,142 MB/sec. Likely higher as I am using 1:1 MP to MB here.

Say Canon has a 60 MP sensor where they want sub 3 ms readout speeds? That would be 60 MP/0.003 sec = 20,000 MB/sec. Perhaps beyond the next generation of Digic.

Or, as these decisions usually boil down to cost, getting a digic/other readout hardware to do ~20,000 MB/sec is more costly than a global shutter.

All speculation, but this fits for a high resolution R3 or R7. With R3 it makes some sense to me as the R1 would be ultimate IQ and R3 would take an IQ hit but give higher MP. I’ll happily take ultimate IQ.
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Stacked and global shutters have memory on the sensor, which can hold data for each pixel. The Digic X can then takes its time to transfer that data to main memory.

A GS has no readout time, so the bandwidth needed would be infinite if readout and memory bandwidth were directly coupled :)
 
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#9
The R3 line needs to be reinvented anyway, sitting so close next to the R1. Why not take the R3 line and price it at 3.500 € (above R6 and underneath R5). With a GS and few tweaks spec wise (no integrated grip e.g.) this could turn into a high volume model.

Other than that, only the R6 line makes sense for FF but that’d be the mkIV version…
 
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#10
The only thing about a global shutter that would peak my interest (honestly) is the flash sync. To be able to shoot F1.2 lenses outside in bright sun without having to go into HSS or using an ND its fantastic. Right now the current crop of Canon cameras (R1 especially) far exceed my expectation and requirements. The global shutter (flash sync thing) would just be icing on the cake. But with that said, I'm going to run this R1 into the ground (likely get an additional R1 in a few months) before I even think of looking at a new camera bodies that may or may not be forthcoming.
 
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#11
I was hoping for an R5 II with global shutter @ if it's possible 75 Mp, but sadly Canon is lagging behind the competition in terms of innovations lately... The move to mirrorless seems to have meant that they have neglected sensor developments too much at Canon ;-(
 
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#12
docsmith said:
The answer I am coming too:
High readout/High MP/fast action.
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I’ve posted this elsewhere, but global and leaf shutter cameras are the only cameras that display no artifacting when shooting scenes with PWM-dimmable theatrical LED lights when using high enough shutter speeds to freeze motion.

For my use case, I don’t particularly care about the high fps that GS can achieve, but shooting with worrying about these kinds of banding is nice.

IMG_0034.png

IMG_0035.png
 
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#13
frankchn said:
I’ve posted this elsewhere, but global and leaf shutter cameras are the only cameras that display no artifacting when shooting scenes with PWM-dimmable theatrical LED lights when using high enough shutter speeds to freeze motion.

For my use case, I don’t particularly care about the high fps that GS can achieve, but shooting with worrying about these kinds of banding is nice.

View attachment 221250
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Was the R3 in electronic shutter? Did you try it in mechanical with differing results? Due to not having a global shutter, I've been very happy to see that Canon has left their mechanical shutters in their cameras for just such scenarios. I've had similar results with the R3 at church with our specific theatre lighting, but switching to mechanical shutter has always been the ticket to images with no banding. I also take pictures once a year for a theatre production at La Mirada Theatre which I believe has some pretty top end lighting. I just automatically put my R3's into mechanical shutter for that event. I'm not really up to speed on the latest lighting, but does PWM type lighting react with artifacting when in mechanical shutter?
 
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#14
sfericean said:
Was the R3 in electronic shutter? Did you try it in mechanical with differing results? Due to not having a global shutter, I've been very happy to see that Canon has left their mechanical shutters in their cameras for just such scenarios. I've had similar results with the R3 at church with our specific theatre lighting, but switching to mechanical shutter has always been the ticket to images with no banding. I also take pictures once a year for a theatre production at La Mirada Theatre which I believe has some pretty top end lighting. I just automatically put my R3's into mechanical shutter for that event. I'm not really up to speed on the latest lighting, but does PWM type lighting react with artifacting when in mechanical shutter?
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It was on ES in this case, but I’ve had the same issue in specific lighting situations even with DSLRs like the 1DX2 (and that certainly has a mechanical shutter).

The only fix I found is really to slow the shutter speed all the way down but then you can’t freeze motion especially in dance, so it really is a case of pick your poison.

I also like ES for theater and dance for silence reasons (it can be distracting for some of the student actors I work with) so a GS camera would “solve” all my problems.
 
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#16
frankchn said:
It was on ES in this case, but I’ve...
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Interesting...may I ask one quick clarifier? When you experienced similar with the 1DX II, was it flickering or LED banding? I can certainly attest to getting flickering (red, green, white) with older cameras, even with anti-flicker turned on, but I can't say that I've seen LED banding (similar to being electronic shutter) when using my older DSLR's. Not saying it doesn't happen. I'm just wondering if I could get the clarification on the situation that you were in when you got similar results with mechanical shutter when using a camera from 2016. On a side note, I love the 1DX Mark II. I've got it sitting on my desk at work right now..LOL.

IMG_8211.jpg
 
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#18
Phil995511 said:
I was hoping for an R5 II with global shutter @ if it's possible 75 Mp, but sadly Canon is lagging behind the competition in terms of innovations lately... The move to mirrorless seems to have meant that they have neglected sensor developments too much at Canon ;-(
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"Canon is lagging behind the competition" klaxon - everybody take a drink!
 
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#19
It seems like rolling shutter sensors are at the end of the line judging by the latest revisions of the newest cameras from all manufacturers. Added bells and whistles goes at the expense of something else so how are they gonna convince people to upgrade otherwise?
 
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#20
sfericean said:
Interesting...may I ask one quick clarifier? When you experienced similar with the 1DX II, was it flickering or LED banding? I can certainly attest to getting flickering (red, green, white) with older cameras, even with anti-flicker turned on, but I can't say that I've seen LED banding (similar to being electronic shutter) when using my older DSLR's. Not saying it doesn't happen. I'm just wondering if I could get the clarification on the situation that you were in when you got similar results with mechanical shutter when using a camera from 2016. On a side note, I love the 1DX Mark II. I've got it sitting on my desk at work right now..LOL.
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Here is an example with the 1DX2 + 70-200, I am not sure what you would classify this as:

1733243998061.png

I do miss the 1DX line of cameras -- they feel so substantial in hand. Though the mirrorless R cameras are definitely better for my back and shoulders XD.
 
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