Canon, when they have bothered to say much about the subject have always stated that they wanted image quality to improve from model to model on their cameras.

Even though Canon’s definition of image quality at times was a bit suspect (for example JPEG-only output, etc), for the most part, they have held to that, with minor variations (for instance the R5 Mark II being slightly worse than the R5).

Speed also has an impact on image quality, from being able to capture movement without any distortion, to panning without any rolling shutter distortion. The faster the sensor is, the better.

In early 2024, Sony delivered the Global Shutter based A9 III, and it took a while but the results from DXO are in. I didn’t really expect much better from the A9 III (though it wasn’t the first full frame global shutter sensor – it was though the first full frame global shutter camera).

In the ultimate need for speed, the A9 III certainly delivers but there’s a cost and that’s across the board image quality and the base ISO.

If we look at the DXO results, we see that the A9 III scores low on both colour reproduction and also dynamic range.  It should also be noted that the A9 III has a base ISO of 250.

ModelOverall scoreColor ReproductionDynamic RangeHigh sensitivity
α9 III8724.1133224
α9 II9325143434
α19825.914.53163
α7 IV9725.414.73379
EOS R3962514.74086
Z99826.314.42451

The high ISO results more or less catch up because at higher ISO’s the A9 III deficiencies are no longer important.

So what we have is a very narrow focused camera, more so than what people are suggesting for the R1 amusingly.

While I think the R3 Mark II would be a perfect choice, a few things are standing in the way.

The Nomenclature

When Canon implemented a pellicle mirror on the EOS-1N they specifically came out with a “RS” model (EOS-1N RS) that made it clear that this model was different and make sure you are aware of the differences before you purchase.  Much like the 5D Mark III and the 5Ds and 5DsR naming conventions.

I know this is semantics, but it’s basically… Canon wouldn’t do the same tomfoolery that Sony has done.

I could see Canon releasing a R3 GS and the R3 line shifts from the R3 to a R3 GS, with a lineage progression from that model onward. Then there is less consumer confusion over what exactly you are purchasing. But my guess is that if Canon does use the R3 as a Global shutter introduction, it won’t be an R3 Mark II.

The Sensor Performance

But would Canon do this at all? The drop in image quality is high from the R3 to the R3 with a similar global shutter to that in the A9 III. Not to mention removing ISO 100 up to 250 removes a lot of utility that the camera may have outside of high ISO fast movement and action shooting.

This is something that traditionally Canon is very averse to doing, especially the amount of dynamic range, and color fidelity that we are talking about here. So, if Canon implements a Global Shutter, I think they will work on the problems that Sony for some puzzling reason decided not to. 

From Canon (2024)

There are negative points and the image quality is affected. Sensitivity management is not very good and the dynamic range is less extensive. And I think we would have difficulty optimizing this, because of the very complex structure of this type of sensor.

If we have to integrate this into our flagship product, our flagship , we want to have complete technology. Philosophy.

https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-executive-interview-at-cp-2024/

Sony Electronics *does* have better performing global shutter technology, but that was not used in the A9 III.  Perhaps cost was a factor, but with the Sony A9 III getting a $1500 price hike for “something” – you’d think that would cover increased fabrication complexity costs.  And since they didn’t go all out, there’s hardly any fabrication difference between a normal stacked sensor to this global shutter sensor (so don’t ask me what Sony users are paying an extra $1500 for).

I would assume that Canon’s global shutter sensor will be far more expensive than Sony’s because they will work on image quality versus marketing messages.

That also may cause Canon to take a considerable amount of time to come out with such a camera.

Global Shutter Sensors are the Future

Just because Sony was the first to put it in a camera, really is a little meaningless, Global Shutter sensors have been here a while, but it’s optimally performing sensors that’s what the industry really needs.

I do like the benefits of Global Shutter and I think Canon (or Sony) will decide to implement fabrication methods that lower the image quality loss and improve the costs of these sensors.

Once this happens en mass, then we’ll see an industry adaptation to sensors and cameras with absolutely no mechanical “bits” outside IBIS as the rest of the internal guts will be all electronic.

Normal sensors with mechanical shutters will disappear as “yesterday’s technology” much like DSLRs did in the past.

I’m all for that happening sooner than later.

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46 comments

  1. Canon, when they have bothered to say much about the subject have always stated that they wanted image quality to improve from model to model on their cameras. Even though Canon’s definition of image quality at times was a bit suspect (for example JPEG-only output, etc), for the most part, they have held to that, with minor variations (for instance the R5 Mark II being slightly worse than the R5). Speed also has an impact on image quality, from being able to capture movement without any distortion, to panning without any rolling shutter distortion. The faster the sensor is, the

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  2. GS has half the pixel as the storage for the readout if I understand correctly. If the storage can be moved behind the sensor ie part of the stack then it could be the ‘simple’ solution… but I am sure that they have thought of that already!

    SPAD sensor?
  3. That might make sense for the R3 line in terms of what it is/was.
    Still, market wise, I would think there's a bigger market for a higher megapixel camera in the R3 format. May not make sense for the R3 line though.

    Maybe an R2 (or R1s) as a higher megapixel top-end camera, like 65MPx but with the same AF pixel distribution and viewfinder as the R1, for portrait/wildlife shooters/enthusiasts; and a 20-24MPx global shutter R3 because... they can?

    I'm still skeptical of the market size for a global shutter R3 versus what they've already targeted with the R1.
  4. Assuming it would have the same performance in dynamic range and high ISO a global sensor shutter is fine. Otherwise I would rather they stick with a fast readout sensor like the R1 and boost the resolution a bit while maintain solid high ISO performance while introducing quad pixel AF.
  5. Richard was trying to give a logical successor to the EOS R3, which has been discussed before. All I have been told is the 3 series will continue after the EOS R3, the when part is completely unknown.

    This seems like the best idea I have heard yet. I'm also extremely confident Canon is not going to release such a sensor until they are confident there is minimal image quality loss compared to say the EOS R1.
  6. I have a crystal ball at home. It only works on quite useless stuff, like forum reactions though.
    But I can take a look...
    And I see the following hazy comment future:
    "This should be called the R1II as the R3 should have been called R1 and the R1 should have been called R3. But canon wasn't keeping up with the competition."

    Clouded by the dork side the future is.
  7. I have a crystal ball at home. It only works on quite useless stuff, like forum reactions though.
    But I can take a look...
    And I see the following hazy comment future:
    "This should be called the R1II as the R3 should have been called R1 and the R1 should have been called R3. But canon wasn't keeping up with the competition."

    Clouded by the dork side the future is.

    No
  8. Curious about poeple's thoughts on completely eliminating the mechanical shutter and having the sensor always exposed when changing lenses.

    After 2 years with the R5, I switched to 100% electronic shutter (haven't used strobes in a while). Even with the R7 I have been 100% on ES. With the R3, I never used the mechanical shutter, however, when I check the exposure release count it says <1000, because I do have it set to close the shutter when the camera is tured off.

    It does feel good to have the shutter closed when changing lenses in the field, but I always wonder if it makes too much difference. If the shutter protects dust by collecting (at least some) of it, then once the lens is attached, the camera turned on and the shutter opens, presumably some of that dust will just be there and get to the sensor anyway.

    So, is it useful to have a mecanical "protective shutter", cheaper to implement since it doesn't have any real performance requirement? Or is the benefit not large enough to justify having one?
  9. The evolution to mirrorless finally made sense to me when I saw an analysis on how much less expensive/easier to manufacture mirrorless bodies would be (more automated manufacturing, fewer moving parts, etc). Sure there are the bells/whistles like seeing a level or histogram through the EVF....but long term, this was a cost savings to the manufacturers.

    My point being that the direction that camera manufactures go may not necessarily be the most technically innovative. Rather, 1) you either have to be so technically innovative that the innovation will sell a lot of cameras or 2) you have to save the manufacturer money.

    Now that we have sub 3 ms readout speeds, does a GS do either?
  10. It does feel good to have the shutter closed when changing lenses in the field, but I always wonder if it makes too much difference. If the shutter protects dust by collecting (at least some) of it, then once the lens is attached, the camera turned on and the shutter opens, presumably some of that dust will just be there and get to the sensor anyway.

    So, is it useful to have a mecanical "protective shutter", cheaper to implement since it doesn't have any real performance requirement? Or is the benefit not large enough to justify having one?
    I think the answer is that it doesn't make much difference in the field. But consider that you might use the camera for a few hours but for most people the camera probably spends more time powered off than in use. So I think there is a real benefit to a protective shutter, but it's not during lens changes it's when the camera is sitting idle giving any dust in the box plenty of time to settle out, where some of it will land on the sensor.

    I use my R3 in silent mode a lot, and when I don't remember to go back to normal shooting before putting the camera away, I have to clean the sensor more frequently.
  11. I don\'t care much about DXO but how come the A74 has a higher score than the R3 but a much worse high ISO rating and pretty much equal in other ratings?
    I was wondering the same thing.
    Probably different weighting of the subjects in favour of the Sony.
  12. I was wondering the same thing.
    Probably different weighting of the subjects in favour of the Sony.
    DXO weights color reproduction very heavily as you can see in the ranking of the Z9. Funny thing is that color "accuracy" as defined by DXO doesn't always result in the most pleasing colors.
  13. I was wondering the same thing.
    Probably different weighting of the subjects in favour of the Sony.
    Their 'sensor score' is a log scale, 5 points on the scale is 1/3 of a stop difference, meaning a 1-point difference is meaningless. Except to Sony fanboys.

    FWIW, while DxO's algorithm is a black box I have seen it estimated as:
    DxOMark_Sensor_Score = 58.8 + 4.3*(ColorDepth-21.1) + 3.4*(DynamicRange-11.3) + 4.4*log2(ISO/663)

    Take that with a grain of salt.
  14. Curious about poeple's thoughts on completely eliminating the mechanical shutter and having the sensor always exposed when changing lenses.

    After 2 years with the R5, I switched to 100% electronic shutter (haven't used strobes in a while). Even with the R7 I have been 100% on ES. With the R3, I never used the mechanical shutter, however, when I check the exposure release count it says <1000, because I do have it set to close the shutter when the camera is tured off.

    It does feel good to have the shutter closed when changing lenses in the field, but I always wonder if it makes too much difference. If the shutter protects dust by collecting (at least some) of it, then once the lens is attached, the camera turned on and the shutter opens, presumably some of that dust will just be there and get to the sensor anyway.

    So, is it useful to have a mecanical "protective shutter", cheaper to implement since it doesn't have any real performance requirement? Or is the benefit not large enough to justify having one?
    As far as I know, the Z9/Z8 have a protective shutter but not a mechanical shutter for shooting.
  15. Their 'sensor score' is a log scale, 5 points on the scale is 1/3 of a stop difference, meaning a 1-point difference is meaningless. Except to Sony fanboys.

    FWIW, while DxO's algorithm is a black box I have seen it estimated as:
    DxOMark_Sensor_Score = 58.8 + 4.3*(ColorDepth-21.1) + 3.4*(DynamicRange-11.3) + 4.4*log2(ISO/663)

    Take that with a grain of salt.
    Sounds like one of those Facebook math quiz questions .
  16. We now have 2 integrated grip bodies so the option to differentiate by sensor makes sense (a la 1D prior to 1Dx).
    A 4 year cycle for the R3 would be ~Nov-2025.

    It could be as simple as the R5ii in the R3 body similar to Z9/Z8 once the sales of the R5ii have eased in a year.

    It could be to introduce a new stacked sensor faster than the R1 (or GS) which would push the price of the R3 GS closer to R1 and perhaps cannibalising R1 sales. Might not be as bad as it seems once the initial R1 sales have been made.

    It could be a very high res sensor but I would imagine that the R5s would be a more natural evolution similar to 5Dr(s). Landscapers would not use portrait orientation as often as landscape but portrait shooters would use the integrated grip orientation frequently.

    I am sure that there will be (or has been) focus groups run by Canon for ideas but as the R3 doesn't have the same continuous history as 1/5 series then they won't necessarily be constrained.

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